Are you my friend?

What exactly are we, anyway? I find myself quoting members of the board just like I would anyone else I know. In the conversations when someone asks who I'm talking about, it ends up sounding like ".... well, um ... [insert screen name]... uhh, I mean John... this guy... he lives in [far away place]... no I've never actually seen him....nevermind....". Personally I've found many of my relationships on the board to be quite close and the one meet I've made it to seemed more like getting together with friends than strangers.... Anyway just seeing if anyone feels the same....

The irony of this thread being started by a preacher is just rich.

Greetings!

In a way, I have always thought of the board as kind of a neighborhood. (Recent events visible in my choice of wording.) Many of us have different skills, talents, jobs, etc., we don't always get alone and discuss different points of view, but all are brought together through common interests, discussion and the magic of empeg.

The word "community" pops up in a lot of threads. Perhaps that is it. But it does seems a bit more "friendly" than just community - a word politicians use when they want to sound warm and fuzzy about something.

Okay.... since I've teased you already, and have now had a chance to think about it a bit, I would say...no. But something close to it. Through the BBS interaction, I feel like I know y'all well enough to say that I wouldn't hesitate to call most of you friends the instant we meet. In the meantime, I probably consider you all as "fellow BBS members," although given the impressive level of non-idiocy on the board that's a rarity on most of the other boards I've seen, that's not quite descriptive enough. It's a gray area.

Does that help?

Okay, gotta go to work. Enough pillow talk for now.

Are you my friend?

yup.

Yes, I think we are all friends here.

I dunno...I think Bitt wanted to kill d33zY a couple times.

The whole concept of online friends and relationships is a topic of great interest to me, so let's see what kind of perspective I can offer. I grew up on dialup BBSes, and in high school, made many good friends from my own BBS or others I frequented. Several of them are still close friends of mine to this day. In each case, the way we became friends usually started off with some common ideas or perspectives we were expressing. My BBS, and the others I visited, were very message-board focused, so the people you began to identify with were, initally at least, people who were expressing views similar to yours. However, as time goes on, I started to make "friends" with people who were expressing completely different ideas, because the people with similiar ideas were kinda boring. These other people, with different ideas, were at least using logical arguments, and I started to choose my "friends" based on who made the most sense, not necessarily who I agreed with.

Eventually, through BBS get-togethers and such, my "friends" would become friends (no quotes) and we would spend time together on the weekends, etc. Back then, you actually dialed in to communicate, so chances were the people you were communicating with were within easy meeting distance. Sometimes, when I met certain people, they were nothing like I had expected, and there was no "chemistry" for lack of a better word. Conversely, sometimes, people I had largely ignored or underestimated based on their online personna were very cool in person. It all depended on how much of themselves they decided to share, versus how much they decided to keep to themselves. Or, sometimes, how much I read into their words on the BBS.

The Internet has changed things quite a lot. My chances of conversing online with someone from, say, Cambridge, were quite low in the dial-up BBS days. Now it's a regular occurrence. There are much wider and more diverse views here. This BBS attracts people from a very wide age range, whereas my BBS was mostly kids in their teens, with some 20 and 30-somethings sprinkled in occasionally. The sheer volume of discussion can be increased because the BBS isn't limited by the number of phone lines you have. All of these are improvements on the old-style BBSes, most of which have vanished from existence.

There are drawbacks, of course. The "cozy, friendly" aspect of dialup BBSes is one that I have yet to see duplicated on the Internet. This place feels more like "home" than does any other site on the Internet for me, but it still doesn't approach the way things were. Some of the things mentioned above as advantages could qualify as disadvantages in this context. Because of the more diverse user base, maybe it's harder to get cohesive discussions going. Kinda how when cities evolve, people of different ethnic groups create their own little neighborhoods (Chinatown, Little Italy, etc.) so they can be with people they can relate to. In this respect, the Internet's broad reach is a bit of a drawback. Maybe there are times that people just want to be with "their own."

Here, we all have a common bond that's rather trivial, if you think about it. We all own a little electronic music gadget. That's what brought us here. Some people (a majority of the BBS, I'd say) comes just for that. Info on features, support, etc. Then there's those of us who devote at least part of our BBS time to non-empeg discussions. So we come for the geeky stuff, and stay for the good conversations we have here on just about every random topic you can think of.

Drifting back to your specific question a little bit, because I've never been able to attend any of the owners meets, I don't feel like I could call anyone here a true friend, without the quotes. Despite the fact that I grew up with electronic acquaintances who became real friends, or perhaps because of that fact, I tend to separate someone's online personna from the person they really are. Often they are close, but sometimes, they are night and day. So I try not to make any assumptions about what a person is really like based on the person they are online. Maybe it'll give me a clue, but until a true in-person meeting happens, everyone is kind of in "pen pal" status.

That's not to say that I don't have "friends" (quotes) online. I respect and admire a lot of people on this BBS, for the knowledge, opinions, and sometimes humor that they bring. Anyone who contributes regularly here is, to one extent or another, a "friend." But since I don't know any of you beyond what you choose to share on the BBS, it's a lot harder for me to place anyone in the friend category, where frankly, there aren't many open positions, so to speak.

You know that feeling you get when you've read a particular writer's column in the newspaper so much that you feel like you can identify with them? That's sort of what takes place here. We all don't know each other in a conventional sense, but we know each other by how we express ourselves here.

In your particular example, though you are somewhat new to the BBS (less than a year if I recall), you're a regular contributor, and I tend to enjoy reading your unique perspective on some of the "deeper" issues we discuss here. You're obviously a religious man, but you don't let that define who you are, and don't feel the need to tell everyone here that Jesus is the only God, something I've gotten from more than a number of people in my lifetime. You seem like you'd be a fun guy to talk to and hang around with, and, oh yeah, you just happen to be a preacher.

Now, that's what your online personna tells me, but there are a lot of things I would never know without knowing you in a more conventional sense, hence the reason I distinguish between "friend" and friend. When I'm referring to one of you in a conversation with one of my friends, I tend to use the rather unwieldy term "online acquaintance" to make the distinction clear to the person I'm talking to.

So, to summarize, if the words and ideas we express here are truly representative of who we are, then when a meeting does take place, I'm sure we would be proud to call each other friends, without the quotes. Until then, the distinction between "friend" and friend, for me at least, is just a result of the fact that we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet.

Are you my friend?

Yes.

Not the same kind of friend as people who've met in person and spent time together. But I think it's perfectly OK to refer to an online acquaintance as a friend.

Re: Are you my friend?

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Fity dollars I be yo friend soldjer boy, me wuv you wong time.


I'd say “pen pals” would fit best.

<wipes off monitor>

I'd like to think so

Actually, I think it depends on the BBS member. I've met members of this board in real life, but I don't really consider them friends because I haven't talked to them since then. I hadn't even talked directly to them very often on the board when they were posting.

I guess it's like real friends. Some people you come into contact with on a sei-regular basis, but you never do stuff with them, and I don't really consider them friends, but I'm firendly towards them. Sometimes I guess it's like that on here.

I can relate, though. I often talk about people on this board, and am never sure how to refer to them. I wish I had a "speech macro" or something that stood for "on the empeg board".

Ok... so the whole thing came out a little touchy feely.... I see that most of you gleened what I'm talking about. For example I sent something to Mark in Canada. When trying to explain in the office why I was sending a package to Canada, it was easier to say I've got a friend there rather than "I met a guy on the internet [insert youth minister snickers] who needed a router but they wouldn't ship to Canada. Friend seems a little strong but nothing else seems strong enough.

Friend seems a little strong but nothing else seems strong enough.

I dunno, in the case of Mark, I think Friend isn't strong enough. We all owe him big time.

insert youth minister snickers

Do those sound different than traditional snickers? Or is there some new kind of Snickers bar out marketed towards youth ministers?

insert ... snickers

I'm not a robot like you. I don't like having disks crammed into me... unless they're Oreos, and then only in the mouth.

In reply to:

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Are you my friend?

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Yup, and for all my friends here on the BBS I've decided (as soon as I get 2 new sets of buttons from Rob) to start making transparent buttons to help get people up and running with illuminated buttons... Well hopefully if things go well. But not to get off topic.

Yeah I consider most people here my friend... In a weird geeky kinda way. Although I still haven't made it to any meets, I need to do that.

I'd also love to make it to a meet.

Me too!

Let's have the next US meet down in Albuquerque. Then I could make it. hhhhh

- trs

When would you like to have it? I could go for some real green chile and different scenery

Funny, I was thinking that exact same thing. I could definitely go for some green chile and a change of scenery as well. This office is gettin old to look at.

While we're on the subject, have you ever been to Indian School Road in Albuquerque?

It's within walking distance!

Wow, that is cool! I have heard some great things about that place. You up for a mini-meet then?

Yeah - we could represent the entire southwest empeg chapter.

- trs

How about sometime in March?

I don't know - we're in the middle of the best green chile season right now. Plus, there won't be anymore snow on the slopes here by then... so maybe we should consider moving the meet to say..... Durango? hhhh

- trs

Durango would work pretty well for me too, although I'd really enjoy Indian School...

Maybe we could work in Purgatory or Wolf Creek too???

WOOHOO!

That settles it, then - the meet will be in Denver!

- trs

Fine with me. But you might be required to bring some green chile and a not-so-clean tshirt from Indian School...

What exactly are we, anyway?

Simply put... the most extraordinary group of people it has ever been my privilege to associate with.

Some of the group I have met in person; others I feel I know well enough that I might as well have met.

Through emails, PMs, and bbs exchanges I have talked directly with many of the people on the board and wouldn't hesitate an instant to invite any one of them into my home.

With the exchanges you and I have had, Reverend, I would definitely consider you a friend and can only hope to someday shake your hand.

tanstaafl.

Well put.

I feel many here are my friends, some I have met in person and some I haven't but would like to. Some I converse with off the board and some I don't.

Hopefully more people will attend the next meet in Cincinnati this fall and hopefully the ones that came last year will be able to make it again.

the next meet in Cincinnati this fall

Yay! Count me in as a definite! The last one was hella excellent.

I wish I could meet more of you people! If there's ever something mid-east coast, I'll try to make it! Boston was too far north for me. Southern NJ would work, though, because I've got relatives there. I might even be able to work out a visit to my dad's family in CT. Otherwise, I'd love to get together with some folks somewhere between MD and NC.

I am about to announce a date for the NY area meet. Due to lack of time to plan, I decided to make it a lunch meet on a weekend. Most likely Saturday. Location choice number 1 would be in Nanuet, NY. Let me know if that is too far for you.

Most likely Saturday. Location choice number 1 would be in Nanuet, NY.

make it a sunday and I'll be there. Some of us work Saturdays.

In reply to:

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somewhere between MD and NC

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Im with you on this one, are we the only ones in the DC/Northern VA area?

I for one know exactly what you're talking about. If I'm discussing something I saw on the board I say " a friend of mine said..." IF there is little chance of them asking which friend. If it's more likely that they'll ask, I tend to say "I read on the Empeg board..." And then I have to explain why I am a member of a board dedicated to my radio, yes I know I'm a geek, and I have no idea whatsoever how we got on the subject of genetic recombinant theory."

Do I actually consider most of you friends? Some more than others, but basically, if any of you asked for my help, and I could help, you could count on me. So I guess the answer is yes. I consider many of you friends. I would be more comfortable with many of you staying the week-end at my house, without the fear of waking up to all my electronics missing than I would with many of my acquaintances here. And ya'll are the kind of people that would actually understand the value of them.

On the converse, I used to be a member of a couple of muds. For those who don't know, they are like Zork meets Everquest. If you still don't know, you wouldn't get it anyway. Anyway, I became "friends" with several people there over the course of a couple of years. There was this one girl with whom I would spend an inordinate amount of time hanging out and talking with. Only, at some point she started writing letters, then she sent a necklace, then she sent a plane ticket. At that point, I was sufficiently creeped out to switch to a different form of diversion. Any way, I'm rambling...

So I'll leave you with:

Yes, I consider many of you friends.

When I got my eyebrow pierced the place that I got it at had several hundred bumper stickers placed through out the building. My favorite one was:

Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?

but there was one that was regarding friends:

Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies

So how about it? I have a car that I need to be delivered to "Guido" in the bayous of Louisiana. Only thing is, DON'T LOOK IN THE TRUNK! Who's up for a road-trip?

Well, seeing as I live in Louisiana, and I've gotten so lost on occasion that I KNOW I could find a couple of places to dump a piece of "meat" where the gators would take care of it in a matter of hours, I'm in.

But seriously, some of those places are so remote down in the delta, I can't see how they ever find anybody out there.

Some of us work Sundays....

Ok.. Ok ... one of us....

Some of us work Sundays...

Yeah, I hear you guys don't even get Christmas Day off...

Peter

Being a minister is sort of like having 7 part time jobs that don't really appreciate you working on the side.....

In reply to:

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You're obviously a religious man, but you don't let that define who you are, and don't feel the need to tell everyone here that Jesus is the only God, something I've gotten from more than a number of people in my lifetime. You seem like you'd be a fun guy to talk to and hang around with, and, oh yeah, you just happen to be a preacher.

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This brings up a thin line that I try to walk. I believe a lot of things that most of the board would at least disagree with if not mock given the chance. However, I've always felt that people would rather hear what I believe after they know me and after they've asked (at least the group if not me specifically). I am a very traditional Southern Baptist at least in theology, however I am not the normal redneck shove Jesus down your throat preacher that seems far to common place. My fear however is that I grow so non-confrontational that the defining nature of my Christianity doesn't come through. I appreciate your candidness.

Just to chime in here, I'd like to also say that I am a bible church worship leader with very similar theology to the Rev, though I'm only in lay ministry (which means I work on Sunday, but I don’t get paid!). One of the reason I like this board so much is that I can interact with people of clearly differing viewpoints on a respectable level. I don't often find this in "real life", and that is truly disappointing. I suppose a few times I might have come on too strong religiously here, but no one seems to have gotten too offended by what I’ve said. It's that thin line of trying to be honest with people and yet not treat them as if their ideas and opinions aren't important when we disagree.

One of the reason I like this board so much is that I can interact with people of clearly differing viewpoints on a respectable level. I don't often find this in "real life", and that is truly disappointing. I suppose a few times I might have come on too strong religiously here, but no one seems to have gotten too offended by what I’ve said. It's that thin line of trying to be honest with people and yet not treat them as if their ideas and opinions aren't important when we disagree.

FWIW that's also a good description of the fine line that I as a non-religious person try to walk when religion comes up on this board (or in real life). I feel a bit guilty myself about having put in one or two rather late tackles to the Reverend's posts, though again he didn't seem to get too offended. The level of debate on this BBS always impresses me, especially here in Off Topic -- which didn't even exist not so long ago, but has now more than 50% the posts of General.

Peter

Not to get too far off track here, but there is a certain quality to the type of “tolerance” on this board that is a large part of why I’d consider the people who post here regularly “friends”. I posted a while ago about tolerance being to respect people, not ideas. I argued that tolerance isn’t “all ideas are equally valid” but that people should be respected even when they hold views with which you disagree. This doesn’t mean you accept their views or even think of their views very highly; however you don’t simply trash what they have to say out of malice or superiority.

The reason I bring this up again is that after thinking about this a little more and reading this BBS I see that this is a very “tolerant” bunch, at least toward each other. Whether we are polarized by politics or religion, I very rarely feel that people are disrespected. As an example, many here criticize Bush and his administration, but very rarely are Bush supporter’s (the ones who are posting) put down, though often their views are questioned.

As I don’t often find this type of tolerance elsewhere (most people seem not to be able to separate individuals from the ideas they hold), the fact that it exists between the members here is a large part of why I’d consider people on this BBS “friends”.

Re: Are you my friend?

No, I would never stoop to being friends with a mere follower. Only other cult leaders are friends, and that's just to lull them into a false sense of security...

pca

Guess that Blue on his name means his heads in the clouds, we at least his ego

And shouldn't you be busy putting labels on resisters and stuffing them in a little plastic bags

Get to work slacker

I certainly feel a bond of some form of friendship towards many people from this BBS, the vast majority of whom I have never met. Whether this is the normal form of friendship is worthy of some debate, but I think it's at least as valid. After all, the BBS is a very effective way of filtering out a subset of the entire population that has at least something in common, which is a good start for friendship.

pca