Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder

I'm just starting out researching the Tivo and had a thought. Would it be better to get a Tivo or DVD Player/Recorder?

The advantages of having the player/recorder is

1) I can keep certain things as DVD's.
2) If I record something upstairs i can just take out and put it in the DVD downstairs and pop it in my DVD player to watch.

Do you have to have the Tivo subscription to record programs or can I just manually set up a record time. I wouldn't record enough to justify the service. By the way if it is possible to record without a subscription, is that legal?

These are just some preliminary questions. If some of you have opinions on what I should do please let me know.

Thanks,

TiVo is awesome and changed my life. I highly recommend it. And I also recommend that you get the subscription, because I think you /think/ you won't record much, but tivo might convince you otherwise

However, if you do want to drop the subscription, then TiVo doesn't get you /too/ much over the player/recorder. w/o subscription you lose guide data, so you can only setup manual records. I think you still get pause/rewind/etc of live tv, but i almost never /watch/ live tv, so I don't know for sure.

Anyway, as with almost any TiVo user, I'm completely passionate about the product but I find it impossible to easily convince people to get it other than to say you won't regret it and two months from now you'll wonder how you survived without it

ms

The newer TiVo's will not record without service. I know a few people that love the TiVo and only have about 5 shows that they record. If I didn't have a TiVo this is what I would be buying Pioneer Progressive-Scan DVD Recorder with TiVo Series2 unless I had HDTV available in my area.

P.S. I currectly have 3 Standalone Series 1 TiVo's.

A normal stand-alone tivo will not function very well without a subscription. If I recall from the 2.0 days it would allow you to time-shift (30 minute cache) and manually setup recordings like a VCR. However, you would not be able to get guide data or schedule any recordings from the guide (since you didn't have a guide).

There are some new TiVo devices coming out from Toshiba and others that have a DVD burner built into the TiVo. You do not HAVE to pay for guide data, but you will only be able to schedule things 3 days in advance. If you pay for the guides, you can do the normal 2 weeks in advance. I may be a tad wrong, but from memory I think that summary is pretty accurate.

I just setup my DirecTivo on Sat... and holy crap. I can't believe i didn't have this for so long. Tivo already changed the way we watch TV in ONE DAY since we've had it. I think you'll really appreciate with the little ones. If they spill something you can just pause TV and come back to it. heheh. Or have it record every episode of Blues Clues or whatever the hip kids show of the moment is and have them available on demand.

You could always do what i'm planning on... and hack the Tivo to be able to take the recordings off to a massive storage drive or burn them to DVD for archiving.

EDIT: Oh, and you don't think you'd record enough to justify it... i'd wager you'll be amazed at how much you'll want to record once you get it setup and see all the stuff that's available during hours you don't watch TV. I've got quite a few season passes setup already, and have a bunch of wishlist stuff. One of them worked already and i was surprised to find a Chuck Jones special sitting there waiting for me last night!

That's what I was thinking. It would be nice to watch a show when we want. Other than the service itself I don't see a lot of advantages to Tivo over a DVD recorder. You can even pause and rewind while recording to DVD. Then again, I'm new to this kind of thing.

Thanks for the input so far everyone, keep it coming.

I can't even see comparing the two actually. Hm. The Tivo functionality is just always there... you don't think about it. With DVD's i can see having to worry about changing discs. I wasn't aware that there were any kind of Tivo like functionality on DVD recorders. The constant recording of the last 30 minutes feature is kick ass too... which allows the whole pausing/rewinding of live tv feature to work. The Tivo Suggestions and Wishlist features are killer as well.

I wasn't aware that there were any kind of Tivo like functionality on DVD recorders.

There is, but even more importantly, there are now some units that are hybrids: A full hard-disk-based Tivo plus a DVD recorder, all integrated.

I was aware of the hybrids (very slick indeed) but not any purely DVD-R's that could pause/rewind and all of the other Tivo fun functions which seems to be what Doug is talking about.

Now if only they'd come out with the HDTivo my life would be complete.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that most of the DVD recorders were, from the beginning, similar to Tivos in that they were random access and that you could pause the playback of the stream as it was recording.

Now if only they'd come out with the HDTivo my life would be complete.

Agreed. But now that I've messed with a DirecTV HD receiver and a Tivo, now I'd want an HDTivo to be two-tuner and have over-the-air digital reception capability. I'm sure such a unit would be really expensive....

Ditto on all opinions toward Tivo here. I can't express how much it changes the way you watch TV. It's incredible. I recently had to record something on a VCR, and completely forgot to start it on time. I NEVER have to worry about that with Tivo.

I also think the subscription is worth it for only a few shows. It's also useful for finding new programming that you weren't sure you were interested in. Then there's one-time recordings like sporting events.

When I first got my Tivo, I didn't have subscription for a few days, and it was quite difficult to use the machine at all. The unit is really designed for there to be guided data present, and that data is fantastic. It's not just for knowing what to record, it's great info for telling you when the program was made, who was in it, etc.

I've seen a couple of the non-Tivo DVD recorders' "Tivo" functions. They're a bit lacking.

It's just an amazing product.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's possible now with Series 2 Tivos, but you can extract video from Tivo and burn it to DVD that way or store it on hard disks. You can already network them pretty cheaply (with just a USB>ethernet adapter), and download guide data that way.

Lastly, I'm going to wait on DVD recorders of any type until I can edit out portions of my recordings. At the moment, every recorder makes "invisible chapters", so that commercials or whatever get skipped during playback, but they're still there, taking up space on the DVD.

Yeah, what everybody else said. The Tivo (or even better, a ReplayTV) will be used constantly, and you won't watch TV without it. A DVD-Recorder will just be used to tape a few things per week that you want to keep, I would bet. Buy the PVR first, you'll get far more use out of it.

Matthew

You can also upgrade TiVo's with bigger HDs. I've replaced the 40GB drive in mine with a 250GB drive. On basic quality I can get 299 hours on it It's actually using Mark Lord's LBA48 patch to allow it to use drives greater than 128GB.

So far Tivo seems to be the way to go. If I were to get one what size drive do you recommend? 40 hrs worth seems plenty for me but I have yet to get one so maybe I would discover I need more recorder time.

I don't know anything about DVD recorders, but I do have Dish Network's DVR (which does the same things basically as a Tivo) and I have to say (like the others) that it changed my life. However, it changed my life in a way I didn't expect. I now watch far LESS TV than I used to. The reason is that once I got used to skipping commercials my tolerence of commercials got very low. Now I WILL NOT channel surf, because that means starting a show with no buffer, and therefor no ability to skip commercials. So watching TV has become a very intentional thing, almost always involving a pre-recorded show, but even when it doesn't it is something my wife and I plan to do now. This makes for far les drivel in my life from the almighty TV and I never miss shows anymore.

So that's my input. I love this thing, though not as much as my empeg!

now I'd want an HDTivo to be two-tuner and have over-the-air digital reception capability

From what I've heard on the Tivo forum over a month ago, the HDDirecTiVo will have dual tuners for DirecTV plus the ability to record OTA HDTV. Last I heard it was supposed to be available this holiday season.

I thought it was announced that it would be a 4 tuner (2 ota, 2 sat) but you could only use any two at a time ...

Last I heard was March 2004, but I could be out of date.

Another question,

Can you record to shows that are playing at the same time or is this what the mulitple tuners accomplish?

Have you got a 721? I wouldn't recommend a single-tuner PVR, since watching one channel and recording another is one of the main things that I do (like last night on Fox/HBO).

That's multiple tuners ... I don't know if there are any standalones that have multiple tuners, but the DirecTivo's do.

While the dual tuner DirecTiVo is awesome, I had a single tuner original tivo for a long time and it was still sweet (no tivo < single tuner tivo < dual tuner tivo). But you definitely have more instances of conflicts (whereas I don't know that I ever have conflicts with the dual).

ms

It's funny how even with a dual-tuner unit, you still sometimes get conflicts.

Last I heard was March 2004, but I could be out of date.

That is probably a lot more accurate. You would think you would hear something official about it by now if it was coming this year.

Would it be better to get a Tivo or DVD Player/Recorder?


There is no room for dispute on this: Get the TiVo.

I have never owned anything that changed my life as much as TiVo. But you must understand that the hardware isn't what you're paying for. What makes TiVo valuable is the TiVo service.

Here are just some random thoughts in praise of TiVo, in no particular order.

1) Imagine never missing a TV show you wanted to see, no matter what else is going on in your life.

2) You like the show "<Fill In The Blank Here>" ? Then add "FITBH" to a wish list, and no matter what time, what channel "FITBH" appears on, TiVo will grab it for you. If David Letterman has one of the actors from "FITBH" as a guest, TiVo will even record that Letterman show.

3) You will never watch television again. You will only watch TiVo. Because while most of the time there isn't anything particularly good on television, there is always something good on TiVo. TiVo just sits there happily, unobtrusively recording things, and after you've had it a month or so there will always be about 30 hours of stuff worth watching.

4) You will discover television shows that you really like -- shows that you never even heard of before. Because TiVo looks at the things you tell it to record, and then all on its own it records similar programs. So if you tell it you like "Nova" on PBS, then you can bet it will pick up "Scientific American Frontiers" without your having to tell it to do so.

5) You will never be tied to a TV schedule again. Not only do you not have to know that "West Wing" is on NBC on Wednesday nights -- you won't even care. All you have to do is tell TiVo to record a program called "West Wing" and it will take care of the rest. You don't need to tell it what day, time, channel, or anything else. You could even tell it to record any programs with Martin Sheen, and it would pick up West Wing for you.

6) The TiVo has the best user interface of any consumer electronic product I have ever seen. It is impressivly powerful and versatile, yet so logically laid out (menu driven) that after a brief perusal of the manual to make sure you have the cables and the nightly dial-up routine hooked up correctly, you could throw the manual away and in half an hour of menu exploration you will have mastered TiVo.

7) You will never watch a commercial again, unless it is one you really want to see. TiVo will fast forward at 60x viewing speed. This means you can skip through a 4 minute commercial break in four seconds.

8) TiVo has a feature called "View Recording History" that allows you to look back and see any "discrepancies" -- that is, why a program you might normally have expected it to record didn't get recorded. No big deal there. But... the Recording History also lets you look two weeks into the future and find out why programs you want to record aren't going to record, and it allows you to resolve these discrepancies. (Programs will fail to record usually because there is a conflict with another program you want -- TiVo will only record one program at a time.)

There is more. The TiVo is a lot like the empeg -- it is really hard to "get it" without a hands-on demonstration. Then it becomes a must-have item.

Let me put it this way... without exaggeration or hyperbole, I state this as an absolute fact: If I were to go home, and find a smoldering pile of ashes where my house used to be (don't laugh -- this actually happened to me once) the very first purchase I would make, before clothes, food, or anything else, would be a new TiVo.

tanstaafl.

Thanks for the great post. Maybe you can answer this. What size Tivo would you recommend? It looks like the Tivo wins hands down but now I need to know how many viewing hrs I should get. the 40 or 80 hr?

I know you can upgrade drives but I'm not interested in that at this point.

Thanks very much.

The Now Playing list in my 35 hour Tivo always includes more programming than I could possibly watch and keep current on. And I haven't even had it for very long.

The Tivo is designed so that even a small hard disk is useful: It's prioritized, so that there are certain programs that I tag as "Save until I delete", some are "Save until <specified date>", and others are just there in case I decide to watch them but they'll get deleted to make room for new content. I can let the Tivo determine the priority or I can tweak it myself.

The only way I could imagine wanting a bigger Tivo is if I tended to want to save a lot of different things for a very long time. Or if everything I wanted to save was always two-hour movies. But as it stands right now, most of what I want to save is half-hour series, and only save them until I've had a chance to watch them, then I delete them when I'm done. So I can't envision needing a bigger hard disk right now.

I should get. the 40 or 80 hr?


That would depend on the price difference, I think. If the difference is trivial (say, $400 for the big one, $300 for the small one) then I'd get the bigger one, but only for the improved flexibility.

My TiVo is an old standalone model, with a 30 hour capacity. I don't think I have ever had anything I wanted to see get overwritten because there wasn't enough room.

TiVo records on a dual-tiered First-in/First-out system. On the top tier are the programs you specifically told it to record. Those programs stay in the TiVo until you specifically delete them, or until you truly run out of room, at which point a new top tier program will overwrite the oldest program.

On the second tier are the programs that TiVo records on its own -- program TiVo thinks you'll like. All of these programs have to be over-written before TiVo will delete any top-tier program. And TiVo will never overwrite a top-tier program with a second-tier program.

I've made it sound more complicated than it is... just think of a list of programs in your TiVo, most recent ones on top. And then when you get to the bottom of the list, a second list (with different icons so you can easily recognize them) of second-tier programs (chosen by TiVo) that you can watch but which are in more imminent danger of being overwritten by new programming.

I've never felt the need for more than 30 hours.

But wait -- there is the issue of picture quality here. My TiVo holds 30 hours, but that is at the lowest quality. I don't have cable -- everything my TiVo records comes in through the antenna on top of my house, so it is pointless to record a low quality signal in high quality mode. If picture quality is an issue with you then you must get the larger disk. Highest quality uses five times as much disk space, I think.

tanstaafl.

But wait -- there is the issue of picture quality here. My TiVo holds 30 hours, but that is at the lowest quality. I don't have cable -- everything my TiVo records comes in through the antenna on top of my house, so it is pointless to record a low quality signal in high quality mode. If picture quality is an issue with you then you must get the larger disk. Highest quality uses five times as much disk space, I think.

That is the problem I had. When I had a 20 inch tv basic looked good but after I got the 40 inch one I have to set it to medium for it to look good. I had the 20 hour one which is enough but when I had to up the quality it would only hold 8 hours so I upgraded to the series 2 60 hour.

Have to add another vote to get TiVo. I think my friends finally see just how much it improves my TV watching. I would definatley say get a large one. I have an old stand alone 20 hour model, but record everything at best quality because I later extract it to archive to DVD. At best quality I get about 6 hours total space. I need to add another hard drive to mine. I did disable TiVo automatically recording shows I may like, because I don't have the room. At one time I thought 20 hours would be enough.... I had no clue just how much I would use the TiVo. And I must say get the service. I went without it for a couple months and when a new series started it was a pain to manually set up all recordings. And I missed many shows I wanted to record. All the pause rewind stuff still works, you do have to manually set up recordings.

If you have (or are interested in) DirecTV, by all means, get a DirecTV unit with built-in Tivo for these reasons:

1) They are cheaper because they don't have a built-in MPEG encoder and DirecTV actually pays part of the hardware fee to get you as a subscibor. They are going for $99 before rebate for a 35hour model.

2) The reason they don't have a built-in encoder is becuase they record the digital stream straight off of the dish. This means that each and every recording on a "DirecTivo" or "DTivo" is "perfect" in that it is the same quality as if you were recording it live. There is no quality setting with a DirecTivo, just perfect. Looks just as good on my 53" as live TV because it IS the same.

3) DirecTivos have 2 tuners so you can record two seperate shows on 2 channels while watching a 3rd pre-recorded show. This is SUCH a powerful feature and I wish they advertised it more.

4) The Tivo subscription fee is cheaper ($4.99 instead of $13) and applies to all the Tivos in your home (instead 1 for 1). With DirecTivo's going for so cheap now, both of my DirecTV receivers are now Tivos.

About recording time, I found it better to buy a 2nd DirecTivo for $50 (had a rebate) so it is cheaper to just buy a new Tivo and in effect double the recording time AND tuners in your house! With 2 tuners on each Tivo, I can have 2 shows recording on each. This sounds silly, but then you can tell each show to record 2 minutes longer and/or start a few minutes earlier so you don't miss any scenes that may have shifted at the last minute by the local affiliate. With the new feature (forget its name, but it's offered on "non" DirecTV Tivos now) comes out that allows you to send shows from one Tivo to another, it will be even more useful...

OT: Has anyone here (upon first getting a Tivo) picked up the phone to call a friend because you're SO excited about cool show you are watching to only realize that it was aired a week ago! ?

Only DirectTV units can record 2 shows at once this is why I have 3 TiVo's.

This site has a good list of different models http://www.tivo-buying-guide.com/


I have 3 "Philips HDR-112 - 14 Hour" units and all three of my TiVo's have been upgraded by myself. 2 have a 120 GB drive (40 hours at best quality) the other has 2 120 GB drives (80 hours at best quality). If you want a TiVo that is more hackable you need a series 1, but again if I was buying today I would be getting the combo TiVo + DVD-R units just to make it easier. I do extract shows from my TiVo and burn them to DVD but this requires quite a bit of manual work and you must have a hacked TiVo to do this.


This is a great thread containing *most* of the hack available for the TiVo. The extraction software can be found at this site

Oh, and to answer your size question, if you plan on doing no of the above hacks or user upgrade get whatever size TiVo you can afford.

Stuff I forgot to say: I have every Alias episode still on my largest TiVo and you should go check out the remotes for the different TiVo's because this makes a huge difference. The peanut remotes from Philips are the best.

OT: Has anyone here (upon first getting a Tivo) picked up the phone to call a friend because you're SO excited about cool show you are watching to only realize that it was aired a week ago! ?

With all my business travel lately, I've gotten several weeks behind on some of my favorite shows. I find myself needing to warn my friends not to spoil me on all the plot twists.

The worst I've experienced is with football games. I start every game an hour late, which lets me fast forward through commercials and lengthy instant replay reviews. All too often I'll have friends calling me just when the game ends in real time while I've still got 1 minute to go in the 4th quarter. Whether they're excited or sad, I still yell at them

OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

As others have said, there are combo units now that have DVR/DVD recording.

Personally though, I'd recommend a Replay TV 4500/5000. It has a few big things over the TiVo units that I enjoy.

1. Network show sharing. Couple this with a free PC program, and you can watch your shows on your computer, or use this to extract them, remove the commercials, and burn the show to DVD. And, this also allows you to store shows on your PC hard drives, and still play them back on the ReplayTV unit over the network.

2. Internet show sharing. Miss recording something for some reason? Head to planetreplay.com and post a request, and watch as your Replay unit gets this show from their unit.

3. Commercial skip. Sure, TiVo allows you to fast forward, and many units have 30 second skip buttons. Mine, it skips 80% of the commercials automaticially without touching the remote. And there is PC software to read these markers, allowing for quicker DVD conversion.

Overall, from playing with a few TiVos now, I also appreciate the fast interface on my ReplayTV quite a bit. Seems all the cute sounds and animated interfaces on the TiVo slow it down quite a bit.

OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

Personally, I thought I would never switch to a unit that had to encode my video. But, after borrowing a friends Replay unit, I changed my mind. The features were well worth it over the integrated units, and at medium or high recording, I don't notice the quality loss.

There are no off the shelf DVR units that have integrated digital cable tuners. Some cable companies do offer DVR units for rental while you use their service, but I haven't seen too many out there. None based off TiVo or ReplayTV that I know of.

Question: does the DirectTV Tivo have all of the features a regular Tivo has? Specifically the "Record show X" stuff where it records the show (and anything related) whenever it comes on? The Dishnetwork DVR doesn't have this and our contract is up this month, so I'd consider switching if the Direct Tivo stuff is more feature rich.

FerretBoy, yes they do. They have all of the Tivo Features minus the "Home Media Option" which allows programming the player via the internet (say you're at work and remember you want to record something) and allows sharing of shows within the same house. That feature may make its way to the DirecTivos soon. Personally, the 2 tuner feature more than makes up for this.

Other than that, DirecTivo have all of the features that "SA" or "Stand Alone" Tivos have - they even run the same exact interface and software.

The only differences I've noticed between the standalone TiVo and the DirecTiVo are the additional tuner in the DTiVo and the abilities that come with that, the fact that the DTiVo only uses the phone line for PPV purchases (guide info comes over the satellite), and the fact that there's no video quality setting.

Otherwise it's basically identical.

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll have to look into that. It appears to me that DirectTV doesn't have all of the same package options that Dish Network does and I'll really miss the "skip ahead" feature the Dish network unit has (as opposed to FF), but the "season pass" and two channel recording look like killer features.

OK, How would it work? Does it just have a little IR thingie that sits in front of the digital cable box? So you'd use the Tivo to control the cable box completely and shelf the cable remote? Not that that's a big deal, so long as it works.

You can use the IR thingy (which works pretty well, but occasionally gets stations confused) or for some cable providers you can use the serial port on the rear of the digital cable box, which is more accurate (never confused) and switches channels faster. I have Comcast digital cable and a series 2 Tivo (80 hrs) and it works very well.

-Zeke

I would definatley say get a large one. I have an old stand alone 20 hour model, but record everything at best quality because I later extract it to archive to DVD.

It should be noted that only the Series1 Tivos are able to extract video in a reliable fashion. You just have to get a Tivonet or Turbonet card and install some 3rd party software.

That said, there is a deal I got in my mailbox today for a 80GB Series1 Stand-Alone for $199. Use coupon code GEEKTIVO to get the special price.

With all of the praise for the DirecTivo units, I wanted to re-iterate one drawback they have:

DirecTivo units currently have only the two satellite tuners. They do not have over-the-air tuning capability. So if you want to Tivo your local stations, you must pay DirecTV an additional $4.00 per month for the "local channel package", i.e., paying them to re-broadcast the local stations back to you that you already get with rabbit ears.

Now, by default, most of the subscription packages you see quoted on the DirecTV site already include that $4.00 for the local channels. So if you're deciding based on those prices, then you're already golden.

But since network television sucks so bad these days (i.e., there's not a lot of stuff on network TV I'm crazy about having on the Tivo), I'm choosing to save that four bucks and I'm only Tivo-ing the satellite channels.

Still, $99.00 for a DirecTivo system with the two satellite tuners is a no-brainer decision for many. Hard to beat. Remember to get a dish with more than one output so you can use both tuners. If you want to upgrade to high-def eventually, you'll want the dish with three LNB antennas and multiple outputs.

i.e., paying them to re-broadcast the local stations back to you that you already get with rabbit ears.

I don't know where you live in relation to television transmitters, but the only channels I can get over the air is the Jesus channel and the Spanish channel. I don't care for either one of them. To get CBS, NBC, Fox, etc., it's either cable or DBS.

I think I will be doing the same. I also use Comcast. Although the DirectTV deal is tempting.

I don't know where you live in relation to television transmitters...

I'm lucky because I'm on a mountaintop with a clear view of the valley where all the broadcast stations are. I can get all of the local stations in both analog and digital/hi-def formats clear as a bell.

But you're right, many people are in the same boat, they can't get the local stations with an antenna anyhow, so paying the extra 4 bucks isn't a problem.

I have a friend that lives in Jersey City, NJ. He is probably 5 miles as the crow flies from the empire state building. He can't get ANY locals clearly and he has a huge antenna on his roof. Maybe it's just NY that has this problem for some reason.

OK, How would it work? Does it just have a little IR thingie that sits in front of the digital cable box? So you'd use the Tivo to control the cable box completely and shelf the cable remote? Not that that's a big deal, so long as it works.

Yes, it comes with 2 IR transmitters (because ReplayTV units can control 2 seperate input sources) that stick to the unit you want to control. I have mine attached to the front of the Dish 301 box, and it has never failed to change a channel to record something. The only time I would need the Dish remote would be to either check my signal strength, or buy pay per view shows.

OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

Some places (in the Bay Area?) that have AT&T cable can get an special series-2 TiVo that works for their cable system. If you're out here in Time Warner land, however, you're out of luck, or you're just connecting a standalone TiVo to the analog output of your pre-existing cable box.

As to ReplayTV vs. TiVo, I went with TiVo specifically for the dual tuner and direct satellite digital recording features. Among other things, when the premium channels transmit Dolby Digital, you get that on playback. I suppose it would be nice to beam shows from my TiVo to my PC or something, but it's not critical for me. However, being able to have digital audio output from the TiVo is a fantastic thing.

OK, cool. Methinks I just made the decision on what to buy the wife for christmas. -= wink, wink, nudge nudge =-

For the record, she watches FAR more TV than I do, so it really would be for her. I'd just enjoy the hell out of it too.

Yeah, I'm told that the Tivo is one of the few gadgets that the female spousal units enjoy just as much as the male ones.

My dad and I always joke with my mom. "We're getting a new gadget! It'll make your life 10 times more difficult!" But she absolutely loves Tivo. Within a week she had 20 season passes set up all by herself, and was able to search for upcoming programs she was interested in. It's the most technologically advanced she's ever been

Within a week she had 20 season passes set up all by herself, and was able to search for upcoming programs she was interested in

Ditto. I didn't even show Kelly how to use the Tivo features and when i came home yesterday she said she'd setup a season pass for ER, watched a recorded episode, and deleted it already. My little geeky heart fluttered. hahah.

Internet show sharing. Miss recording something for some reason? Head to planetreplay.com and post a request, and watch as your Replay unit gets this show from their unit.

THAT is a killer feature. That's like having on demand TV for real. It IS having on demand TV.

What is the status of being able to extract shows from Series2 DirecTivos? I thought i'd seen threads on how to at least get shell and adding TivoWeb... i just haven't had time to investigate further.

So questions for you DirecTivo owners... have any of you hacked them at all? What is possible at this point?

Oh, and another quicky thread stealin' question... I'm having problems with some season passes. Specifically one for the Daily show, where i've set it to only record first runs, it records all 4 shows daily despite them being identical. Then there's Family Guy, which airs once a day with a different episode daily. The season pass for that is set to the middle setting... can't remember the exact wording, but it should record them all. But when i go to the recording history screen it shows that it won't record them because they are duplicates, despite being all different episodes. SO... what exactly does the Tivo use as the deciding factor one what is a duplicate/first run etc? phew...

As far as the Daily Show goes (and probably the issue with Family Guy), thsi depends on the data that Tivo gets. I used to have a Daily Show season pass too, but I got all those episodes recorded so I changed it to a manual time record. The problem is that Tivo (the company) doesn't know which episodes are new, and I presume that it's because Comedy Central doesn't tell them. That's the only reason I can tell for it happening.

As for Family Guy, I'm not sure what's going on there. I assume the "middle setting" is the one that records both first runs and repeats, in which case it should get all of them. It might be another case like the one I described about the Daily Show. I had that season pass too, though, and didn't have a problem with it. You're getting the one on Cartoon Network, right?

It's funny, Jon Stewart actually joked about this exact thing on one episode. He said something to the effect of "Tivo will give you 8 episodes of this show in one day."

So questions for you DirecTivo owners... have any of you hacked them at all? What is possible at this point?

A Series1 DirecTiVo is just as hackable as a Series1 Stand Alone. I have turbonets in mine and can extract shows.

I don't have a Tivo, but I do have a Microsoft 2004 Media Center. Not as many TV features, but you can schedule shows (sometimes you get repeats), you can't record two things at once, I have a 120 gig hard drive in mine. It's a full featured DVD player, if you have a DVD burner installed with myDVD you can burn recorded programs straight to DVD, the guide data is free, and it even has downloadable games... and they are free too. I'm hooked on Gem Master...You can pause live TV, and has a lot of other features too. Set up your music directory and you've got a full featured music center, and also plays downloaded video.

The beauty of all that is, the hardware you need doesn't cost more then 150 bucks and a decent PC.... I went a little crazy and bought a shuttle, the TV card, and MMC remote... but it certainly has changed my viewing habits....

Also... it is a PC so you can network it and share all your recorded shows. It is in a MS format, but the format is high quality and easily converted with freely available utils...

Dignan: yeah, i'll have to check the Family Guy thing again, it was really weird. I'll just have to set manual records when i see that happening i guess.

A Series1 DirecTiVo is just as hackable as a Series1 Stand Alone. I have turbonets in mine and can extract shows

I should have specified that i need info on the Series 2's =]

A Series1 DirecTiVo is just as hackable as a Series1 Stand Alone. I have turbonets in mine and can extract shows.

Really? I didn't realize that. Then I can hack my DTiVo. Hmm....

I can offer verification of that.

Dealdatabase is a good source for Tivo hacking information.

I'll be getting my DirecTivo in a few days. Hughes GXCEBOT (Series 1). I won't go into the hack details - because yes, I am in Canada. Saves me the trouble of having to "really" hack a stand alone to get Canadian listings though.

Anyway, hacks for series 2 are harder to come by, but some are available. I can't be certain if extraction had already been done in a straight-forward manner.

Bruno

You can get extraction with the Series 2 via a USB to Ethernet adapter and some software. The Series2 are about a year old, so there are fewer hacks available, but I assume that'll pass in time.

Loren, I'm not sure what's going on with your Family Guy settings... mine records them all and I assume we're getting the same info from the Cartoon Network to the Tivo... I'd just delete the season pass and re-add it.

The only time I miss a show is when 3 overlap or when a network switches an air time at the last minute.

Well my buddy and I got his USB Ethernet dongle working on his Series 2 DirecTivo. He was hoping he could get by without having a phone plugged in, but DirecTV really wants that in for PPV. We never did try any extraction, but we had an IP, and successfully could telnet into the DirecTivo. Granted it was a PITA to do, but you can get ethernet working there too!

Well I went out and got a Tivo Series 2 80 hr. I love it. I have one problem which I hope someone here can help with. I know how to hookup the DVD player, cable box and Tivo or connect the tivo, cable box and split the signal to record something and watch something else at the same time. I can't seem to figure out how to connect everything together. Cable box, tivo, DVD and TV. The problem I see is that I have only one set of A/V inputs on my tv. Is there a way to connect it all together so I can..

1) Watch one show and record another at the same time (by spliting the cable line)
2) Watch a DVD and record something to tivo at the same time.

I'd like to do all of this without changing up all my connections all the time.

Thanks,

If you have only one set of inputs on the TV, you'll need an external switcher. I have a Sima SVS-4 and love it. They have a newer model, the SVS-4D, that should be the same thing plus digital audio. It auto-switches inputs. In your case, that means that you'd leave the DVD player off until you wanted to watch something on it. When you power it up, it'll autmoatically switch to the DVD input. When you cut it off, it'll switch back.

Mine was only $100 when I got it, but they seem to be more expensive now.

Thanks. I was hoping there was something I was missing. Would this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3058447113&category=14968

I realize it is probab;y a manuel process to switch but would it work. I'm not to keen on spending $100 for something.

This would allow me to watch tv while recording something else or watch a DVD while something is recording?

I do have an VCR which doesn't record anymore but the tuner in it still works. Could I use that instead? It has a video out as well.

Thanks,

Beware the dark side of Tivo:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/992089.asp?0si=-

You can use that one, but I think you can find a brand new one of those for that price. There are many others that will work, too. I don't know the quality of all of them, though.

If you have a VCR that has two inputs and you can switch between them, that'll work, too, but again, I don't know anything about what it might do to the quality of the signal.

Other things to consider:

- A new television that's modern enough to have multiple video inputs.

- An audio amplifier which contains audio and video switching capability.

Yeah, basically you want an input selector and a cable splitter. You can get the splitter at any Radio Shack, just make sure to get one that's more than 1GHz.

I've got a pretty good input selector, but it's only RCA and S-Video. It's an RCA VH920.

On one hand, I would recommend it because it will respond to the button of the remote for the device you're using.

On the other hand, the remote sensor (on mine, at least) bites hard. I think I might have gotten it to recognize the IR code one time.

Anyway, I don't use this device as my main selector. It's actually what I use to switch between video game systems. I would suggest, at this point, that you get a full-on receiver and a nice set of speakers. Receivers aren't as expensive these days. Heck, you can get a decent Sony for under $150.

But yeah, an input selector is the easy way to go.

If you have a VCR that has two inputs and you can switch between them, that'll work, too, but again, I don't know anything about what it might do to the quality of the signal.

Remember that if you send a DVD player's video-out into the video-in of a VCR, it will be macrovision protected. The picture will waver between dim and bright.

This counts for S-video and composite video, but not for RF output, IIRC.

Thats not good.

Yes a new TV would be ideal but at this point, kids, mortgage payment and the holidays take precedence.

What to do...

I have a great set of speakers with center channel and surround. I could use a new receiver, but they can get a little pricey, especially since knowing me I would want a high end product.

Would something like this work?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AA9E8/103-0212806-0243865?v=glance&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&st=electronics

It would certainly be cheaper considering the alternatives. I'm not sure if the Tivo conection and DVD conection are separate or not. If they spooled into on connection to the TV that would probably solve my problem.

Beware the dark side of Tivo:

Funny . . . as I mentioned before, my DVR (not a Tivo) has caused me to watch LESS TV more effeciently.

Would something like this work?

Didn't you already buy your Tivo? Because that's what that is. I think someone was talking about it near the top of this thread.

Yes,

It's a Tivo. But it has a DVD player built in. With this in mind my thinking is the need of only one line out to go to the TV, since I only have one to use. Currently I would need two. One for the Tivo, one for the DVD player. My options are, if that is the case, either one, keep my current Tivo (I just bought it yesterday) and then spend around $100 or so for a good device that will add input and outputs to my tv or return the Tivo I have and get the combo unit for only $50 more than I spent on my current Tivo.

Just weighing my options.

I personally don't like those switching devices. I prefer using a home theatre receiver to do video/audio switching. In your case, I think the DVD/Tivo combo would be best. This Crutchfield photo shows only one set of video outputs, so you only need one input on your television.

Reading all your posts I was not sure, but does your TV have the normal cable input (RF) and one set of RCA inputs?

Also does your DVD player have an RF input and output?

If both of these are true then you can get a cable spiltter from Best Buy. Run one cable to your TiVo and now you can conect the TiVo your TV with the RCA's. Now connect the other cable to your DVD RF in and connect the RF out to your TV RF in. Now you can use your TV's remote to change inputs on the TV, or maybe if your lucky the new TiVo remote can change in the inputs on your TV.

Are you even running S-Video to your TV? Even if you are... a $15 two or three way switch will do fine. Unless you're using a high-def or plasma or very large screen tv, i wouldn't worry about it. I used a game switcher cheapy for 3 years on my 27" and couldn't tell the difference from when it was connected and wasn't. Save the money until you can afford a decent reciever with tons of ins and outs.

For the record, the Sima Copymaster2 fixes the macrovision problem. And it works like a champ. I've had one for 4 years or so now, perfect piece of equipment.

Keep in mind, if you buy a single Tivo with the DVD built in, if one or the other breaks, you have to buy the whole set again. If the DVD player is no longer up to snuff you lose your TIVO or TIVO comes out with an HDTV version that you MUST have you lose your DVD player. I personally just don't like buying devices that depend on each other. At least whith numerous smaller devices, if I want to upgrade, I can one piece at a time, making the hit a little less painful.

Yes,

It's a Tivo. But it has a DVD player built in. With this in mind my thinking is the need of only one line out to go to the TV, since I only have one to use. Currently I would need two.

I understand what you're trying to do, and what the unit is, but I was checking because I was confused as to why you would buy a Tivo and then consider exchanging it for the type of unit suggested in the second reply of the thread I know the feeling of wanting a product that badly, though I would say: have both!

My other question would be: I'm gathering from your reply to my suggestion of a receiver that you have one already. Your current receiver doesn't have enough inputs for two components? If it's as old as you say it is, I would definitely upgrade it. The most recent component in my system is the receiver, and in many ways it's the most important. I was so happy when I upgraded, because my new one kicked the crap out of the one I got for half off at Radio Shack

The suggestion earlier in this tread was for a combo unit with a DVD recorder. This is slightly different because it just has a DVD player, not DVD recorder. I'd admit I should have done better research. I wasn't aware there were also DVD player/Tivo combo units. I should have assumed there would be. Oh well. Anyway for the $50 more I can get the functionality I want with the combo unit or spend more for separate components. At this point the combo unit seems the best choice. I understand that if one breaks I'm out of luck with both. Generally I try to keep away from from combo units for the point made above, if something breaks I'm out to components, not just one. For an extra $50 I think I am willing to give it a shot.

No, my DVD player does not have an RF input and output. The DVD player is about 3 years old at this point. My receiver is 10 years old. Neither have ever failed me and up to this point I never had a need to upgrade to new components. I guess I have a reason to now. Someday I will, but I can't do everything at once.

Ah, understandable. That does look like a good solution. Have you set up your subscription with Tivo yet? Did you get the monthly or lifetime subscription?

For the record, the Sima Copymaster2 fixes the macrovision problem.

Yeah, I've got a similar box from back in the days when I ran my DVD player through the VCR. I didn't want to cloud the issue by bringing it up.

Yes, setup a subscription, monthly. When I saw that the lifetime subscription was for the life of the box, that was out. I just may try the switch box first. Just get a cheap $20 one and go from there.

I always turn these things into a big hassle for myself. You'd think I'd learn. I always second guess myself.

My series 1 has a lifetime and it's already paid off in terms of months.

Success. Well I finally go everything set up as I had originally hoped. I ended up just going to Radio Shack and getting a 4 way A/V switch. It is suiting my purposes nicely. I was going to return the Tivo and get a combo unit but at this point it would have been a hassle. I'm very happy.

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. I can see how the Tivo has changed a lot of peoples' TV viewing habits.

See man... just listen to the future brother-in-law-in-law and you'll be aaaaaalllll right. =]

future brother-in-law-in-law

Is this your way of telling us something? It's not like we didn't already assume, but is this an official annoucement?

No no no no... i knew you were going to do that. hahaha. Don't go spreadin' rumors. It's a foregone conclusion some day but i'm in no way making a public announcement. wait a few years. =]

OK. I said Fsck it and went out and bought one Friday. Everything is all set up and running smooth. Very cool piece of equipment. Just a couple of quick questions. Why does the guide draw so slooooooow. I mean, that's just painful. OK, that was more of a statement rather than a question. My real question is: Is there any way to turn that god-awful beep off or at least down? I mean the beep that happens EVERY time you press ANY button on the remote. It's just that it's so LOUD, I mean, it's louder than any commercial on TV, much less the actual program.

Do you have a DirecTiVo? Apparently the DirecTV Grid draws so slowly because each block is rendered individually when needed. Stand alone models (at least in the past) don't even have this grid. They use the "Tivo Live Guide." You can also use it (assuming you have DirecTiVo) buy pressing the display button on the remote while the grid is on the screen. Then, change the style. The Tivo Live Guide draws MUCH faster, but I still prefer the grid view.

Dig through the menu's for an option to set the volume for that beep (or off). I think I had to turn mine down too.

One thing that I HIGHLY recommend is switching from the "DirecTV style" guide to the Tivo one. I had DirecTV for over a year prior, but I fell in love with the Tivo Guide in minutes AND it draws WAY faster. To change, hit GUIDE then INFO and select "Tivo style".... this is from memory, so I may be off a bit... it might take a day for you to get a full guide too...

Nah, I have a standalone unit. I finally found the option and am honestly embarassed that I missed it. It seems obvios to me now. As to the guide thing. With 4.* There is an option to use the plain old grid style interface. I just don't understand why it can't keep even that little bit of data cached. Perhaps I could get used to the Tivo guide, but I doubt I ever will as the wife flat refuses to give it a shot. Besides, hopefully soon we'll be watching less and less live TV. Now to just get a USB ethernet adapter and upgrade the drive in it.

*brings up the Replay TV Gride guide and cycles through every page of it in 10 seconds just to torment Rob about it again*

Bite me.

Well, part of the reason I got the Tivo rather than the replay is that the Tivo cost me $155 as opposed to over $400.

The best deal on ReplayTV was when they started liquidating the older 4500/5000 units about two months back. They sold for around $350 including a lifetime subscription. Plus you got a unit that supported Commercial Advance, and Internet Show Sharing, something the newer 55xx units don't do.

Refurb and new 5040 units are still available at Replaytvoutlet.com. They now come with the 3 year activation, instead of the lifetime they offered recently. Still a good deal.

Newer units could be as cheep as TiVo as well, if they did monthly fees. Right now, the $500 for a 40 hour includes a 3 year subscription. After that, it's $12 a year.

TiVo $12.95 * 3 years = $466.20

All depends on how long you keep a unit I suppose.

LOL, Now thats funny. I can almost see you backing up with your hands waving in denial and a horrified look on your face, "No, no, no, not me." Don't worry, I'm not spreading rumors. Just busting ya.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2003/11/hdtvrecording_t.html

Interesting photos, but their "photo of the rear hookups" appears to be just a photo of the standard DirecTivo model HDVR2 that I've got. Making me suspect that the thing on the show floor that they photographed was just a shell on an HDVR2 chassis.

Still, the 7-800 dollar price point sounds good. Too bad I have to wait for Q1 2004.

Too bad I have to wait for Q1 2004.

There is little doubt that I will be buying at least one.

Yeah -- no DVI out is sort of a giveaway there ... why would you have an HD device with no DVI output on it ...

Looking at the photo more closely, it's the printed vinyl sheet from the back panel of an HDVR2, it's on an HDVR2 chassis, but they've taken the spots for some of the audio outputs and replaced them with component video outputs, and added an additional RF plug whose purpose is unclear.

Interestingly, the spot for that extra RF plug happens to be the same spot I put the speed control knob for my fan. It's a convenient place to put things on the HDVR2 chassis because there's already a hole in the aluminum there and only the printed vinyl sheet covers that spot. Makes it easy to cut a hole.

Do you have to have the Tivo subscription to record programs or can I just manually set up a record time

I know this thread has concluded and everything, but I found something I read on TechTV.com interesting. Check out the info on "Tivo Basic" that only comes with DVD/Tivo units out of the box. Interesting...

You heard it here first.

If I didn't aready know about the HDTV TiVo's and already have a turbonet in each of my TiVo's I would get the TiVo with the built in DVD-R or the DVD player depending on how much I could find them for online.

Oh, If anyone needs a Turbonet I might have 2 for sale soon because I just ordered 2 of these

Crapnuts!!

Well still, there's the official site. I searched the thread for the name, but it wasn't used in your post, so I didn't see it

Damn damn damn.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

Yes, I saw that too. At this point NOT having the subscription would drive me nuts. I love the features.

Attack, that card kicks ass! I hope it comes out for the Series2 DirecTivos soon!

Wow! That is incredible! I didn't even hear anything about that one. I knew about the cache card, which sounds like a good card to have (my Tivo is getting a bit slow), but not the combo.

Oh, this kills me. I'm stuck in the perpetual "improve what I've got or wait until the next new thing comes around" conundrum. I'd love to upgrade or otherwise dork with my Series 1 DirecTiVo, but I'm frozen in the headlights of the upcoming HD DirecTiVo. *Sigh*

Actually, what I think I'll do in the short term is to install a decent OTA antenna on the roof. That will let me get OTA standard-def signals to the spare TV in the bedroom (currently unplugged), and should have me set and ready to go right the minute the HD TiVo is available.

Or, is there a sufficiently cheap OTA HD tuner that I can do it as an impulse buy without feeling too bad about taking it out of service mere months after buying it?

And, finally, what's the best OTA antenna to buy? They come in all different shapes and sizes. Google hasn't been too helpful in finding useful advice.

http://www.cesweb.org/shared_files/innovations/innovations_2004/2787/mainphoto2787.jpg

Hey there. In my searches I found this post by you a while ago:
"One thing that I HIGHLY recommend is switching from the "DirecTV style" guide to the Tivo one. I had DirecTV for over a year prior, but I fell in love with the Tivo Guide in minutes AND it draws WAY faster"

I'm trying to change this on my dad's DirecTivo, but can't for the life of me find the option. Where is it?

Also, do you happen to know what changing the option in the menu system to 16:9 instead of 4:3 does? It didn't appear to change anything...

Without being in front of my TiVo, I think that when you bring up the guide it tells you somewhere that you can hit a key for options. I think it's enter. And I believe that the option is in there.

Oops, I meant to send that as a PM to Brad so I wouldn't bring this old thread back up. Damn. But thanks anyway!

Do you know what the 16:9 option does?

So that worked?

And, no, I don't.

Don't know, I'll check when I get home But thanks anyway

Bitt is correct... the option is not hidden in the Preferences or Setup... You can only find it when the Guide is actually up during live TV. I also forgot what to hit, it might be "Info", but you need the Guide up at the time..