TV sucks
Posted by: hybrid8
TV sucks - 04/04/2007 17:00
So they did it again. Some brainiac TV exec has pulled the best new show on TV, The Black Donnellys. Together with Day Break and Kidnapped, I have no qualms about stating they were the best three shows of the past 5 years.
I'm glad the creators of Day break and Kidnapped had back-up plans and managed to wrap the story line in 13 episodes (which had to be downloaded). Though a bit rushed, they did a far better job than most shows have done when they start a season already knowing it's their last.
Does American TV cater to Americans? Is the majority of the TV-watching country really made up of people with such poor taste they consider "Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader?" entertainment?
So great TV gets axed and we're left with theusualy crap: The aforementioned game show, Deal or No Deal, Nanny 911, Supernanny, Trading Spouses, Wife Swap, The Apprentice, Dancing with the Stars, America's Top Model and equally annoying, stupid and completely numbing reality TV. There are of course bad serials and series as well. This years 24 is arguably the worst hour of series television of the year. The writing is just so horrid it gets painful to watch. The lead actor is even barely in the show - and he's practically the only reason to actually watch it.
24 is actually a show I've followed. Another that I started from the begining with is Prison Break, and this season has also been a complete clusterf&ck. Where do they hire these writers? We have 2 too many Law and Order shows on TV, 2 too many CSI, Shark should go, Jerico is a joke and even with a few more shows deserving of the axe, the prime time slot is actually pretty empty. So empty one has to wonder WHY these other shows are being canned.
Why does ABC run 3 episodes of the horribly unfunny According to Jim back to back? Yet they have two new comedies that are much funnier in the form of In Case of Emergency and The Knights of Prosperity that should be filling that night's slots. They keep pulling one and showing only the other or neither on some type of random schedule. NBC pulls My Name is Earl and The Office from the air for the past two months for who knows what reason.
The Black Donnellys would likely have been better served as an HBO show with added swearing and less concealed violence. The pattern I see is that all these shows I consider good and of high production quality (with generally stellar casts and superb acting) are quite different than anything else on TV. They're not the same Crime, Law or Hospital show.
Which leaves me surprised that Lost has stuck around and that Heroes has made it this far. And there's another braniac move. Take the show off the air for a month. That will certainly help with audience retention. The multi-month break almost killed Lost this season.
Posted by: lectric
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 17:07
Totally with you on this one.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 17:25
The TV landscape has changed dramatically over the last few years and so too has network scheduling. It's disturbing so far as TV and entertainment go.
A few years ago I was surprised (pleasantly so) that a show like "Ed" could stay on the air. Last year I quite enjoyed the premier episodes of Tom Cavanagh's new series Love Monkey for many of the same reasons. It was yanked pretty quickly after only 3 episodes I believe. I don't think a show like "Ed" could make it on TV today.
It's as if the networks would rather just keep premiering new shows for that initial high hit of viewers. Then take it off the air and repeat. Once we all become jaded enough this is going to backfire on them.
I did a little reading and sure enough, the Monday 10PM time slot is to be filled by some reality TV garbage. NBC were apparently surprised that the audience from The Black Donnellys lead-in, Deal or No Deal, were not the same people sticking around for the show. It wouldn't have taken a genius to predict that.
Please, game shows can run from 6 to 8 but keep prime time open for prime content. Reality shows can stay on reality stations like TLC and Discovery for the most part, Amazing Race and to a lesser degree survivor being the exception - their production value is so far above anyone else's that it makes that much of a difference.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 17:26
I had absolutely no desire to see any of those three shows, but, in general, I agree. If it isn't dumbed down to the level of a fifth grader, it won't be retained, at least on network TV.
I agree about Prison Break, although I did enjoy the first three-quarters of the finale more than the rest of the season put together.
Did you see The Riches? On paper, that's a show I would not enjoy, but the ads were compelling, and, so far, I'm really enjoying it. And Raines is a pretty good noir mystery, although they need to lose the psychiatrist angle. That feels a lot like notes-from-the-network to me. At least they're showing them out of order. Probably to push the psychiatrist shows up to the front. Andy Barker, PI is pretty funny, too.
Other than that, the only other show I can think of that I get actively excited about is Veronica Mars. I watch a few others, but I wouldn't be too upset if they were cancelled.
Posted by: Attack
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 17:29
The average American just can't handle chewing gum and watching a TV show at the same time. This is why we have reality TV since it doesn't require the mind to actually to work and why good shows get FOX'd.
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 18:04
Quote:
I have no qualms about stating they were the best three shows of the past 5 years.
Hmmm... has it really been five years since "Firefly"?
I didn't particularly care for any of the three shows you mentioned, but that's just me. They were probably good shows, just not to my taste.
As long as we're talking about TV pet peeves... how about the practice some of the networks are doing now of starting certain programs a minute before the hour (i.e, 8:59 pm instead of 9:00 pm)? That means that if you watch TV using a PVR like TiVo, the 8:59pm show is competing against TWO hours of programming (the 8p-9p shows, and the 9p-10p shows) which cuts the likelihood in half of the show being recorded. In my case, it cuts the likelihood to zero because any such show I find I immediately delete the season pass and that's the end of it.
The commercial networks are shooting themselves in the foot, taking short term gains at the expense of long-term prosperity. Remember that the networks are not in the business of providing quality programming, they are in the business of providing viewers to their advertisers, and if more people want to watch fifth graders than want to watch some family named Donnelly, then it's the fifth graders that prevail.
I think commercial television may be on its death bed now. I had the unfortunate experience of trying to watch a movie on my TV a few weeks ago (as opposed to watching it on TiVo) because I have only a single-tuner TiVo and it was busy recording something else. The movie was completely unwatchable. The run time of the movie, if you were to watch it on DVD, was 110 minutes. After the network finished the butchery ("...edited for content and to run in the time allotted") there was probably only about 90 minutes of programming. The actual on-air time for the movie was three hours. Every ten minutes (at hh:10, hh:20, hh:30 etc.) there was a commercial break that ran a minimum of 4:30, sometimes as long as 6:00. I believe there was more commercial matter than programming during the three hours. It was the first time in years that I had ever watched live TV. I won't do it again.
tanstaafl.
Posted by: visuvius
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 20:34
I'm just here to say that this seasons 24 BLOWS. I don't know if its the writing, or if I'm just over the general "terrorist" storyline. It all just seems very generic at this point. I watched every damn episode of the previous seasons.
But yeah television has been pretty disappointing lately. I find that I've been watching a lot more TLC, History Channel, Discovery Channel stuff lately. Around here we have this great channel called Discovery Times which has the most interesting 1 hour documentary type programs on various topics. Really good stuff.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 22:34
"Yes, sir, here's your multi-thousand dollar high definition flat panel TV and your multi-thousand dollar surround system. Oh, very nice couch. You're ready to go. Oh. You say you want content?"
I suppose there's always NetFlix.
Posted by: AndrewT
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 22:34
Quote:
As long as we're talking about TV pet peeves... how about the practice some of the networks are doing now of starting certain programs a minute before the hour (i.e, 8:59 pm instead of 9:00 pm)? That means that if you watch TV using a PVR like TiVo, the 8:59pm show is competing against TWO hours of programming (the 8p-9p shows, and the 9p-10p shows) which cuts the likelihood in half of the show being recorded. In my case, it cuts the likelihood to zero because any such show I find I immediately delete the season pass and that's the end of it.
You know what really sucks about this? It's that TV networks over here will probably also ''see the light'' and start doing the same thing! 
Purely speculation on my part but don't give up on those Season Passes just yet... I'm sure that some clever folks will, before too long, write a TiVo cron script to cull a minute or two from these programs to fix it.
Posted by: visuvius
Re: TV sucks - 04/04/2007 23:28
Yeah Netflix is a pretty good alternative, especially considering the fact that in addition to movies, they have pretty much any recent show available on DVD as well. AND they do you the favor of sending you your movie in Blueray or HDDVD if its available in that format.
On an aside, can I just say that competition RULES. Because of all this "watch our show online" crap thats been going on, Netflix has decided to provide me with 15 hours of content online.
Awesome.
Posted by: gbeer
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 00:06
Quote:
"Yes, sir, here's your multi-thousand dollar high definition flat panel TV and your multi-thousand dollar surround system. Oh, very nice couch. You're ready to go. Oh. You say you want content?"
That's what put me off of buying one of those 65" Panasonic plasmas a couple months ago. I started looking at the DTV and Comcast channel lineups. Decided I didn't want to a bunch of SD on a 1080 big screen for the next year of so.
edit: I hadn't heard that the BD had been axed. (Some words held back.)
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 01:20
Quote:
I had absolutely no desire to see any of those three shows, but, in general, I agree. If it isn't dumbed down to the level of a fifth grader, it won't be retained, at least on network TV.
I agree about Prison Break, although I did enjoy the first three-quarters of the finale more than the rest of the season put together.
Did you see The Riches? On paper, that's a show I would not enjoy, but the ads were compelling, and, so far, I'm really enjoying it. And Raines is a pretty good noir mystery, although they need to lose the psychiatrist angle. That feels a lot like notes-from-the-network to me. At least they're showing them out of order. Probably to push the psychiatrist shows up to the front. Andy Barker, PI is pretty funny, too.
Other than that, the only other show I can think of that I get actively excited about is Veronica Mars. I watch a few others, but I wouldn't be too upset if they were cancelled.
I'm definitely with Bitt on this one. I really don't like those shows you mentioned, Bruno, and I think I wasn't alone. There were not many fans of The Black Donnellys. You make it seem like if you aren't watching it, it's crap or reality TV.
Here is the list of all the shows I'm watching that are either currently airing or are expecting a new season (in no particular order):
Lost
The Simpsons
Bones
Jericho [actually, I stopped watching this one]
Dexter
Heroes
House
American Dad
Veronica Mars
Family Guy
ER
My Name is Earl
Mythbusters
Smallville
Weeds
Numb3rs
Supernatural
Eureka
Avatar: The Last Airbender
The Dresden Files
Andy Barker: P.I.
This list doesn't count a few shows whose future I'm uncertain of, like The Dead Zone and The 4400.
Look, I definitely think the networks aren't doing things right, but the fact is there are a number of good shows on the air right now. Considering the number of shows that premiere every year (dozens of them), it's hard to say that only "the best" get the axe.
*edit*
By the way, I don't claim that my list of shows only includes really great TV. I tend to think a few of those shows aren't very good (Dresden Files), but most have some redeeming value to me at least. For example, I'm going to start watching Nathan Fillion's new show. I don't think it'll be very good, but even if it isn't, I'll still watch it for him.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 05:01
I just want to mention that Discovery Channels' (well, BBC's really) "Planet Earth" is fantastic. If it isn't on your watch list, it should be, IMNSHO.
- Jon
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 13:54
Matt, I like most of the shows you mentioned. But since I've already included those in other threads I didn't want to list them all again.
Yes, I like the three shows I mentioned and some of that is personal taste. But there's no arguing on technical merits where the production value, set design, location shooting, camera work, direction, writing and acting are all very much above par. All three shows were big-screen A-grade motion picture quality in every aspect and detail.
For instance I think the technical aspects of Smallville are pretty good. But I just can't get into the show. I wouldn't include it in what I'd call a list of crap. Same goes for Veronica Mars. I've heard really good things about it. I just don't watch it. I doubt however its audience is as big as The Black Donnellys was - it's just not on one of the big networks, therefore it survives. If it were an NBC show it wouold have been gone a long time ago.
I'll chime in on Andy Barker though... I've watched two episodes so far and I'm still questioning whether to remove it from my record list. It's not as enjoyable as Andy Richter's previous shows. It has some moments, but I'm picking up a lot more Conan humor than Andy's in this. And I think Andy is generally a LOT funnier than Conan.
And again the reason I mention reality TV is because that's what they're replacing a lot of these shows with. The Real Wedding Crashers is supposed to come in on Monday nights. They already have Deal or No Deal that was leading into The BD.
I view TV much the same way I view forums. So much crap and so little cream. No one can argue that empegBBS stands head and shoulders above the majority of internet forums running today. Thats why I can post stuff like this in here without it turning into a screaming match of little girls.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 14:18
I would argue that the production values of a show are irrelevant to whether or not it's entertaining. Well, as long as it's passable. I don't want to see someone's hand holding up the plane that's getting shot down on 24. But, even then, it's just because it breaks me out of my suspension of disbelief.
It's all about the writing and acting, from my point of view, on TV. WIth the advent of HDTV, I think we'll start to see the direction come more to the fore, but not yet, really.
Of course, there's also taste to be accounted for, and while I'm sure that you all loved The Sopranos, it bored the ever-living crap out of me. I'm sure the same can be said by you about things that I love.
Anyway, I'm rambling, but judging a show based solely on production values is pretty short-sighted. I mean, there's no reason that How I Met Your Mother couldn't be shot like Annie Hall, but it would still be crap. In fact, high production values may be self-defeating. Networks cancel shows not only based on their ratings, which directly translates to revenue for the show, but also on how much it costs to produce the show. Veronica Mars may have lower ratings than The Black Donnellys did, but I'll guarantee you that it costs a third to make.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 14:36
How I Met Your Mother is one of my favorite sitcoms on TV right now. Network TV is finally dumping laugh tracks, at least on the better comedies.
I also listed many other factors in addition to production. Production is about much more than special effects. Set design, costumes, etc. I have a hard time watching a show and taking it seriously if it looks like it was filmed by a high school student on the weekend with their DV camera.
The writing and acting were superb on three shows that inspired this thread. In the case of Day Break and Kidnapped the (lead) actors were also predominantly movie actors.
Don't get me wrong (I'll say it again) there are other decent shows on TV. I think NCIS is pretty good, the original CSI, Without a Trace, Criminal Minds and a number of others. I don't watch most of them though. I do watch House and my girlfriend also watches Grey's Anatomy (I see one episode here and there and like it, but don't follow it).
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 15:31
Quote:
How I Met Your Mother is one of my favorite sitcoms on TV right now
Okay, I'm going to stop paying attention to what you say now.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 16:01
Quote:
Don't get me wrong (I'll say it again) there are other decent shows on TV. I think NCIS is pretty good, the original CSI, Without a Trace, Criminal Minds and a number of others. I don't watch most of them though. I do watch House and my girlfriend also watches Grey's Anatomy (I see one episode here and there and like it, but don't follow it).
My wife watches all that stuff, so I tend to get stuck watching them.
Brain fart: what is it about crime shows and medical shows? Let's combine them. Criminal medicine? Medical criminals? Of course, the CSI shows are already half-way there. Every time they're showing someone doing lab work, they've always got some kind of trendy music going on. If there was a CSI drinking game, you'd have to yell out "Science Music!" and take a drink. If the lab work is being done by some impossibly good-looking top model playing a scientist and wearing a lab coat, you'd take two drinks and yell out "She blinded me with science!"
(I'm tempted to make an exception for Boston Legal. Initially it just annoyed me, but my wife is hooked and I'm regularly impressed by the witty writing. It's hard not to enjoy the torture they regularly apply to William Shatner's character.)
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 18:59
Bruno, I'm thinking that you, Bitt, and I are agreeing on the principal. The difference is that we do not share the same taste in TV shows
I don't like a single show you listed. I wanted to start watching
How I Met Your Mother because of Alyson Hannigan and Jason Segal, but the show left me cold. I simply can't watch the standard, cliched sitcoms anymore.
Okay, that's all I really have for arguing
I agree, just about different shows. And frankly, if
Veronica Mars's future is as bleak as some are saying, I'm going to be one pissed off TV viewer. That might be my favorite show at the moment.
I just wanted to comment on some other things you said:
Quote:
the technical aspects of Smallville are pretty good. But I just can't get into the show.
I can totally understand that. The teenage drama stuff gets really annoying. I watch it for the Superman stuff.
Quote:
I'll chime in on Andy Barker though...It's not as enjoyable as Andy Richter's previous shows...And I think Andy is generally a LOT funnier than Conan.
I agree that it's nowhere near as good as Andy Richter Controls the Universe. That show was hilarious. I think conan is funnier on his own show, but I still really like his humor. You say you've only watched two episodes? Have you seen the one about chicken? That one had me cracking up the most (when Harve Presnell asks "ever been to Havana?" I was cracking up).
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 05/04/2007 19:16
I have a soft spot for detective fiction, so that's a plus for me. Also, the references to other works of detective fiction crack me up.
Posted by: Cybjorg
Re: TV sucks - 06/04/2007 04:40
I have the solution to your problems. If you move overseas, all you get are
Dr. Phil reruns and last seasons
The Biggest Loser. Needless to say, it fixes any TV addictions real quick.
Posted by: xp2004xyz
Re: TV sucks - 08/04/2007 05:42
I just watched "Man vs. Wild" on Discovery channel.
"DSC — Man vs. Wild: The Rockies
Ultimate Survival
Bear Grylls is no stranger to extremes--he served in the British Special Forces and successfully climbed Everest . Now Bear parachutes alone into a remote and wild part of the Rocky Mountains with only the clothes on his back."
Another Englishman is teaching Americans how to survive in the Rockies. ....well - The above statement specifies "with only the clothes on his back" . Where did he get a life jacket that is hidden but clearly visible outline under his sweat shirt - Is there a store near by ??.
It is clearly visible during the river drift.
I would like to learn from REAL survival show from an American native (Indian)that know how to live in this environment - not from some British fraud show.
Posted by: RobotCaleb
Re: TV sucks - 08/04/2007 08:13
Ok.
Hi, I'm l0ser. What brings you here?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 08/04/2007 19:47
Quote:
Another Englishman is teaching Americans how to survive in the Rockies
Yup, yet another in a long line.
???
Posted by: xp2004xyz
Re: TV sucks - 09/04/2007 01:18
My post if you read it all is about junk (fake)
reality shows - not foreigners (I'm one).
This guy has a camera crew and other supplies
while claiming "bare survival" skills - I see none.
My son was watching this show and believes this junk.
Posted by: Tim
Re: TV sucks - 09/04/2007 11:57
Quote:
Brain fart: what is it about crime shows and medical shows? Let's combine them. Criminal medicine? Medical criminals?
You mean like Quincy? Of course, that was decades ago 
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 02:33
Sorry to resurrect this thread from the dead, but I just wanted to say that I thought tonight's episode of Heroes was fantastic. I really hope the writing continues to be this good.
The cast was on Larry King the other day and said it's been picked up for next season, so at least one good show will go on.
Posted by: lectric
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 02:47
Agreed. Heroes was excellent tonight. I heard the writer had 5 years worth already written and ready to go. I can't wait. "I scare me" I loved that.
Posted by: mlord
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 11:16
Quote:
Quote:
Brain fart: what is it about crime shows and medical shows? Let's combine them. Criminal medicine? Medical criminals?
You mean like Quincy? Of course, that was decades ago
Okay, Da Vinci's Inquest, then. Except it's now a couple of years old.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 11:45
Also
Silent Witness, which is still a going concern.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 11:47
I loved the last episode of Heroes except for what looked to be serious character holes in this particular episode.
In particular the allegiance and actions of the Haitian and Matt seemed to make absolutely no sense. Especially the Haitian.
Spoiler:
Vs gur Unvgvna jrer qrnq lbh pbhyq nyjnlf rkcynva Zngg'f pbaqvgvba nf cneg bs fbzr oenva-jvcr cresbezrq ol Flyne hfvat gur Unvgvna'f cbjref.
Of course there was also the dramatic, though implausible scar on Peter's face...
It would also have been nice to see a bit more action - at least one good Matrix lobby-style sequence set to music.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 11:51
I'm in complete agreement. For me, this was the best episode yet, and not just because we finally get to see these people use their powers (which has been frustrating me the whole season). I finally got to see some of these people stretch their acting ranges.
The guy who plays Peter completely surprised me, for example. I have not been impressed with him at all so far, but somehow he really turned up the badass mode to the max. I guess it would be hard not to if you knew your character was probably the most powerful person on the planet (and has a nifty scar).
Spoiler:
(abg zhpu bs n fcbvyre) Vg jnf nyfb cerggl vagrerfgvat gb frr ubj pregnva crbcyr raqrq hc tvira pregnva pvephzfgnaprf. Lbh'q cebonoyl rkcrpg Cnexzna gb raq hc nf n tbbq thl, be Avxv gb or rivy.
I'm excited to see the last three episodes, but I'm even more curious to see where the show is headed. I'm assuming that the bomb plot is just a season one story arch, and that next season they'll have a new challenge.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 11:54
Quote:
Spoiler:
Vs gur Unvgvna jrer qrnq lbh pbhyq nyjnlf rkcynva Zngg'f pbaqvgvba nf cneg bs fbzr oenva-jvcr cresbezrq ol Flyne hfvat gur Unvgvna'f cbjref.
I'm not sure that's how Sylar's power works. I thought he had to get into their heads (excuse the pun) to get their power. He's not like Peter.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 12:13
Spoilers, people, spoilers. Please edit.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 12:36
Sylar's powers do seem to work by him looking (or other) directly at the exposed brain.
Spoiler:
Juvpu vf jul V fnvq gur unvgvna fubhyq unir orra qrnq. Flyne jbhyq unir xvyyrq uvz ol gnxvat bhg uvf oenva nf ur qvq jvgu Anguna, QY, rgp. Nyy bs juvpu jnf irel boivbhfyl vzcyvrq ohg abg fubja va gur rcvfbqr. Jr qba'g xabj jura rnpu bs gur riragf gbbx cynpr ohg gung'f abg gung vzcbegnag sbe gur rcvfbqr.
Rira gubhtu gurl cebivqrq fbzr nqqvgvbany Vfnnp-onfrq cerzbavgvba, gurl qvqa'g cynl gur Flyne natyr ba guvf. Fvapr ur unf Vfnnp'f cbjref ur pbhyq unir rnfvyl frra jung jnf nobhg gb unccra naq unq cynaarq sbe vg. V'z jvyyvat gb qvfpbhag gung natyr gubhtu. Ohg gur Unvgvna punenpgre synj ohtf zr evtug abj. Znlor gur arkg guerr rcvfbqrf jvyy cnvag cnegf bs n zvffvat onpx-fgbel gung jvyy uryc rkcynva zber bs jul jung jr fnj "pbhyq unir orra."
V qvq YBIR gur Flyne gjvfg. N ybg bs snaf fcrphyngrq gung gur cebqhpref jrer bayl yrnqvat crbcyr gb guvax bs Crgre nf gur obzo jura va snpg vg jbhyq or Flyne. Va fgvpxvat gb gur fgbel yvar gur Vfnnp punenpgre ynvq bhg jr trg n zhpu zber vagrerfgvat gjvfg.
That's what SHE said.
Matt, edit the post where you quoted me - that's the line I enclosed as a spoiler in my last edit.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 12:40
Quote:
Spoilers, people, spoilers. Please edit.
Sorry about that. My posts didn't really have spoilers in it. You know everything I was talking about already. I tagged what limited spoilers were in my first post.
Sorry, I don't usually have many spoilers to offer. I don't think I've ever used the tags before
On an unrelated note (to Heroes), is there anyone else here who enjoys Supernatural? Sorry if I forgot. The show keeps surprising me. It's not the greatest show on TV, but in almost two seasons it has not once failed to entertain me, and occasionally give me some scares. Every now and then there's even some good drama (did anyone see the episode a few weeks ago named "Heart"?).
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 12:58
I watched about half the first season, got bored and gave up. It looked like it might have been getting to something interesting, but I just couldn't be bothered to care at that point.
This is not to say that each and every episode after the last one I watched hasn't been brilliant, but those ten or so I watched ranged from boring to groan-inducing, with maybe one episode's worth of good stuff in there, all added up.
On the other hand, I'm watching The Dresden Files, which is probably not a lot better in reality, but which I find more entertaining, for whatever reason.
Posted by: BAKup
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 13:05
Quote:
Quote:
Spoilers, people, spoilers. Please edit.
Sorry about that. My posts didn't really have spoilers in it. You know everything I was talking about already. I tagged what limited spoilers were in my first post.
Sorry, I don't usually have many spoilers to offer. I don't think I've ever used the tags before
On an unrelated note (to Heroes), is there anyone else here who enjoys Supernatural? Sorry if I forgot. The show keeps surprising me. It's not the greatest show on TV, but in almost two seasons it has not once failed to entertain me, and occasionally give me some scares. Every now and then there's even some good drama (did anyone see the episode a few weeks ago named "Heart"?).
But you quoted a post that had a spoiler in it, and left everything in plaintext.
Also i have not watched Heroes yet, didn't get into it in time, so was waiting for the boxset.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 13:23
The Dresden Files is infuriating to me. I don't know who's writing and directing that show, but it was all over the place in story, plot development, and just the basic premise.
Case in point: the creators seem undecided on how powerful they want Harry to be. For the first several episodes, he seemed able to do little more than open locks and track people. Then all of a sudden in one episode he
channels lighting from the sky.
That's the kind of inconsistency I see in the show, and as I said, I think it carries over to all aspects of it. I find it even more puzzling because I recognize that this is based on a series of novels.
Regardless, I still watched every episode, and I'll watch next season if they bring it back, but I think this show has a whole mess of problems with it. I do think the lead is good in it, though.
You might want to give Supernatural another chance. I think there have been some great episodes recently. The main problem I see with that show is the insistence on casting people who are more pretty than they ought to be
But hey, this is the CW we're talking about. If you can, check out episode 2x18, "Hollywood Babylon." It reminded me of that X-Files episode where Mulder and Scully go to a movie set, except that episode was terrible. And like I said, 2x17 "Heart" was very good. It's interesting to see how they
could have dealt with Oz on Buffy.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 13:27
Bruno, I'm still not understanding you.
Spoiler:
Lbh frrz gb or vzcylvat gung gur Unvgvna jnf qrnq va ynfg avtugf rcvfbqr. Lrnu, fher, nsgre Zbuvaqre xvyyrq uvz, ohg ubj jbhyq Flyne unir tnvarq gur Unvgvna'f cbjref orsber gung? V qba'g haqrefgnaq jung gur ubyr vf gung lbh'er gnyxvat nobhg.
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 13:46
Matt,
Spoiler:
Ur'f fnlvat gung gur rcvfbqr jbhyq unir orra zber cynhfvoyr vs gur Ungvna jrer qrnq orsber gur rcvfbqr fgnegrq naq Flyne unq uvf cbjref. Vg pbhyq orggre rkcynva jul fbzr bs gur punenpgref unq tbar "onq".
Posted by: Roger
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 13:56
Quote:
Also Silent Witness, which is still a going concern.
I don't know if you guys get it in the US, but Waking the Dead is pretty good.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 14:56
Quote:
Matt,
Spoiler:
Ur'f fnlvat gung gur rcvfbqr jbhyq unir orra zber cynhfvoyr vs gur Ungvna jrer qrnq orsber gur rcvfbqr fgnegrq naq Flyne unq uvf cbjref. Vg pbhyq orggre rkcynva jul fbzr bs gur punenpgref unq tbar "onq".
Spoiler:
Ur'f fnlvat gung gur rcvfbqr jbhyq unir orra zber cynhfvoyr vs gur Ungvna jrer qrnq orsber gur rcvfbqr fgnegrq naq Flyne unq uvf cbjref. Vg pbhyq orggre rkcynva jul fbzr bs gur punenpgref unq tbar "onq".
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 15:13
Quote:
Quote:
Also Silent Witness, which is still a going concern.
I don't know if you guys get it in the US, but Waking the Dead is pretty good.
Yes, they show that on BBC America, which is where Silent Witness is shown as well.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 15:26
Quote:
The Dresden Files is infuriating to me. I don't know who's writing and directing that show, but it was all over the place in story, plot development, and just the basic premise.
Case in point: the creators seem undecided on how powerful they want Harry to be. For the first several episodes, he seemed able to do little more than open locks and track people. Then all of a sudden in one episode he channels lighting from the sky.
Agreed. There were a hell of a lot of inconsistencies with that entire episode. I'm inclined to believe that it was a pilot episode that SciFi decided to show well out of order, when they probably shouldn't have show it at all, due to apparent changes in thought about the show. (You'll also notice that Bob didn't appear in that episode and Cruz's hair was much shorter than in the rest of the episodes. Also, a quick glance at TV.com shows that its production code was 1x01, and the notes also indicate that it was the pilot, not to mention that the name of the episode is the name of the first novel.)
I imagine that most of the problems you have with it are based on the channel's decision to show them out of order. And I'll bet the reason that they chose the ones they showed first is because they were packed with hot-babe guest stars. Regardless, the production codes, in order of airing, are: 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 8, 6, 1, 10, 9, 11, 12. Production codes are not necessarily intended airing order (post on one episode might be expected to take longer than the filming and post of the next episode, for example), but it's a good guide, and that's obviously well out of whack. Of course, you can also argue that that doesn't make any difference -- that the show should stand on its own merits -- but then you have to include the airing channel in the list of defendants.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 17:20
Matt, JB is right on the money. I'm saying it SHOULD have been the way I described to have it make more sense. The way it was done exposes what I consider to be a writing flaw for that character.
But regardless of these flaws, there's nothing that could put it down at the level of 24 where every single line of dialog and script is a flaw. It's truly horrible but I'll watch it till then end of the season just so I can be justified when backing up my opinion.
I can't get into shows like Buffy, Angel, Supernatural, etc. The closest I got was Dark Angel and that went to crap in the second season and was deservedly cancelled (without any kind of proper ending unfortunately). I find these shows to be far too much cheeze. For unrelated reasons, I also can't get into Veronica Mars. It's just way too much of a chick show. An early high school or junior-high level chick show to boot. It just seems a little too much Hardy Boys vs. 90210 remix.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 17:51
Quote:
I also can't get into Veronica Mars. It's just way too much of a chick show. An early high school or junior-high level chick show to boot. It just seems a little too much Hardy Boys vs. 90210 remix.
Again, have you ever actually watched the show? It's far more like Key Largo than 90210.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 18:42
re: Veronica Marrs
Yes, I've watched it. One episode straight through and portions of other episodes. It's not horrible in any sense that immediately comes to mind, it just feels like kiddy-fluff TV that has a real made-for-after-school-tv air to me.
I probably should have said Nancy Drew instead of Hardy Boys, but the point is roughly the same.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 18:52
Assorted commentary on Heroes:
Spoiler:
Jvgu ertneq gb gur Unvgvna: jr qba'g xabj ubj znal bgure cbjref gung Flyne znl unir npphzhyngrq. Fbzr bs gubfr pbhyq vaibyir gur novyvgl gb or cflpubybtvpnyyl fhttrfgvir. Vg'f pyrneyl inyhnoyr sbe Cerfvqrag Flyne gb unir cbjreshy zvavbaf gb qb uvf ovqqvat, bar jnl be nabgure.
Zber oebnqyl, guvf rcvfbqr qebccrq fb znal qvssrerag uvagf naq sberfunqbjvat ryrzragf bs guvatf gb pbzr. Zl urnq vf fgvyy fcvaavat. Urer'f n inthr nggrzcg gb pngrtbevmr gurz.
Bgure fcrpvnyf jubfr cbjref jrer nofbeorq ol Flyne:
- Anguna Crgeryyv
- Zvpnu'f qnq (V sbetrg uvf anzr)
- Pnaqvpr (gur funcrfuvsgre)
Bguref jub jvyy qvr:
- Naqb (sebz gur obzo)
- Zvpnu (pnhfr haxabja)
- UET'f jvsr
Phevbfvgvrf:
- Gur Yvaqrezna Ynj (hfrq gb ebhaq hc fcrpvnyf?) - naq jung rire unccrarq gb Ze. Yvaqrezna
- Avxxv/Wrffvpn - ybfg ure nygre rtb?
- Crgre'f fpne
- Gur neenatrzrag gung nyybjrq UET zna gb fcvevg njnl gur yrffre fcrpvnyf
- UET'f "nffvfgnag", fubg va guvf rcvfbqr, ybbxrq gb or Unaanu Tvgryzna (sebz gur tencuvp abiryf, jub'f tbggra irel yvggyr ba-fperra gvzr)
Bs pbhefr, gur znva cybg ryrzrag gurl'er jbexvat gb frg hc vf gung Uveb arrqf gb tb genva uvzfrys gb or n znfgre fjbeqfzna naq gb gnxr bhg Flyne. V rkcrpg jr'yy frr n ybg zber bs Ze. Yvaqrezna nf jryy. Naq, jr'yy qrsvavgryl unir guvf ovt dhrfgvba pbaprea jub, rknpgyl, vf gur obzo. Jr unir ab vqrn ubj znal bs gurfr nyg-shgher riragf jvyy unccra va gur "gehr" gvzryvar, ohg lbh unir gb vzntvar gung znal bs gurz jvyy vaqrrq pbzr gb gnxr cynpr.
Naq gung svany svtug fprar... whfg vzntvar. Obgu bs gurz unir nyy xvaqf bs cbjref, vapyhqvat Pynver'f ertrarengvba. Crgre pna fgbc gvzr, juvpu jbhyq frrz gb tvir uvz gur hccre unaq, ohg gura jr uneqyl xabj gur pngnybt bs cbjref gung obgu bs gurz unir znantrq gb npdhver.
Quite an amazing episode. I love this show.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 19:27
Quote:
re: Veronica Marrs
Yes, I've watched it. One episode straight through and portions of other episodes. It's not horrible in any sense that immediately comes to mind, it just feels like kiddy-fluff TV that has a real made-for-after-school-tv air to me.
I probably should have said Nancy Drew instead of Hardy Boys, but the point is roughly the same.
Wow. IMO, that description couldn't be further from the truth. Simply watching the first 10 minutes of the entire series would be enough to tell you that this aint no Nancy Drew.
And I'm not sure what this "made-for-after-school-tv air" comes from. What kind of after school programming did you have growing up? Mine was nothing like that!
Re: the Heroes stuff
Spoiler:
V znvagnva gung vg jnf abg n synj. Cheryl ybtvpnyyl, zl cbvag nobhg ubj Flyne tnvaf uvf cbjref jnf gung V qba'g oryvrir Flyne pna tnva fbzrbar'f cbjre jvgubhg xvyyvat gurz. Gur Unvgvna vf fgvyy nyvir. Ubj qb lbh rkcynva gung?
Naq V znvagnva gung gur zbgvingvbaf bs nyy gur punenpgref vf ragveryl cynhfvoyr. Qb lbh ernyyl guvax vg'f gung zhpu bs n fgergpu sbe Cnexzna gb pneel bhg gur npgvbaf ur qvq? Jr'er gnyxvat svir lrnef bs fhcreurebf qrnyvat jvgu n obzo gung xvyyrq zvyyvbaf. V qba'g guvax gur snpg gung ur'f orpbzr qnex vf gbb zhpu bs n ernpu. Uryy, V qba'g guvax ur'f arprffnevyl "rivy." V guvax ur'f whfg fgenvarq, naq V'z unccl gb frr gung guvf fubj unf tenl nernf. V jnf fgnegvat gb jbaqre.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 19:52
I just want to chime in and say:
Thank you everyone for putting the heroes stuff behind spoiler tags. It's on my tivo and I haven't watched it yet. The spoiler tags are working, and I'm not spoiled yet. I love you all.
And also to say:
Damn you all for posting about it. I'm really excited to watch it based on all the stir it's generating and because of the "best episode so far" comments. But I can't see it until later tonight, or maybe even as far out as Thursday. And here I am stuck in a cold server lab working on Vista wireless stuff. I hate you all.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 20:24
Matt, read slowly....
Spoiler:
Flyne qbrf ABG unir gur Unvgvna'f cbjref. V arire fnvq gung abe vagraqrq gung. Jung V fnvq vf gung gur Unvgvna fubhyq abg unir orra jbexvat jvgu Cnexzna nppbeqvat gb jung jr unir frra va bgure rcvfbqrf nobhg uvf punenpgre. Vg jbhyq unir orra n orggre svg vs Flyne UNQ xvyyrq uvz naq fgbyra uvf cbjref. Gung jbhyq unir gnxra uvz bhg bs guvf rcvfbqr jvgubhg gur ohyyfuvg punenpgre synj gung jr jrer yrsg jvgu. Vg jbhyq unir orra pyrnare. Jr qvqa'g arrq gur Unvgvna va guvf rcvfbqr sbe nalguvat guna n cybg qrivpr gb rkcynva gur qnatref bs nggnpxvat gung ubzrynaq onfr sbe gur urebf (gur Unvgvna pna oybpx gurve cbjref).
Flyne jvyy cebonoyl or qbar guvf frnfba. Ur'f jrnx. Pbzcnerq gb Crgre. Crgre'f bayl jrnxarff vf gung ur qbrfa'g xabj ubj gb hfr gur cbjref ur nofbeof evtug njnl. Nal cbjre Flyne rire tnvaf, Crgre pna nyfb tnva whfg ol orva arkg gb uvz. Fb gurer'f ab jnl ur pbhyq rire unir nf znal cbjref nf Crgre. Crgre'f punenpgre vf whfg nobhg gur zbfg cbjreshy fhcreureb gung unf rire orra perngrq. Ohg bs pbhefr gur shyy rkgrag bs gur cbjref ynetryl qrcraqf ba jung bgure crbcyr ur ehaf vagb. Fb sne gur jevgref unir abg qrzbafgengrq n yvzvgngvba gb uvf nofbecgvba bs cbjref/fxvyyf.
Bbs pbhefr univat hygvzngr cbjre qbrfa'g zrna lbh'er hafgbccnoyr. Pynver'f ertrarengvba novyvgl unf orra fubja (fznegyl) gjvpr gb or vagreehcgrq juvyr gur pnhfr bs qrngu vf fgvyy cerfrag - vg'f nf vs gur punenpgre xrrcf qlvat naq pna'g ertrarengr hagvy gung snpgbe vf pyrnerq. Ynfg frra nf gur funeq bs tynff va Crgre'f fxhyy naq cerivbhfyl n fgvpx/fcvxr va Pynver'f fxhyy (erzbirq qhevat ure nhgbcfl).
Naljnl, vagreivrjf jvgu gur perngbef unir fnvq gurl'er abg vagraqvat gb snyy vagb gur fnzr genc nf znal bgure rcvfbqvp frevrf naq gung'f fgergpuvat gur dhrfgvbaf jvgubhg nafjref bire zhygvcyr frnfbaf. Rkcrpg cybg yvarf gb or jenccrq naq arj barf fgnegrq. Vapyhqvat ryvzvangvba bs byq punenpgref naq vagebqhpgvba bs arj punenpgref.
Glad we cleared that up. Heroes. Best show on TV right now. Period.
Veronica Marrs: what my 13 year old daughter would be watching if I had one. :P My friend's wife loves it which just reinforces my opinion.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 20:35
Yeah, that must be why it's on so many TV critics' best-of lists, right beside One Tree Hill. :/
Posted by: DWallach
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 21:42
More on Heroes and the Haitian:
Spoiler:
Pbafvqre: gur Yvaqrezna tnat jnf ng fbzr fgntr va gur cebprff bs erpehvgvat Cnexzna gb jbex jvgu gurz. Yvxrjvfr, gur Unvgvna nyernql jbexrq sbe gurz. Yrg'f nffhzr gung gur Unvgvna naq Cnexzna raqrq hc jbexvat gbtrgure nf cneg bs gur Yvaqrezna betnavmngvba. Yvxrjvfr, jr xabj gung Yvaqrezna fhccbegf Anguna Crgeryyv sbe hygvzngryl orvat gur Cerfvqrag. Vg'f n ubc, fxvc, naq n whzc sebz gurer gb gur Yvaqrezna tnat (jvgu be jvgubhg Yvaqrezna uvzfrys) jbexvat gb fhccbeg Anguna Crgeryyv, nsgre ur'f cerfvqrag, cnegvphyneyl jura gurl znl abg xabj gung ur'f orra xvyyrq naq ercynprq ol Flyne.
In short, the wonder of this episode, and of the series in general, is that you can pretty much always concoct some way that everything fits together. Nothing about Heroes has honked me off like what happens every time I watch one of the CSI shows. My favorite, recently, was with this couple who put gasoline in their own home, hoping to fake their death, only a burglar/intruder managed to cause the house to ignite when they weren't expecting it. Bogosity #1: if you've just loaded your house with gasoline, and you decide not to light the match, you're certainly not going to sleep there until you know that you're not sitting on a powder keg any more. Bogosity #2: the show claimed the house fire couldn't start until both the gas fumes reached the water heater's pilot light *and* the window was broken, letting extra air in the house. (There's plenty of air in the house to support the fire.) Bogosity #3: Something about whether or not the chick had carbon dioxide on her clothes helped implicate her. Carbon dioxide? Please. That's even worse than every time the manage to zoom deep into an image and enhance it to get some incredible high fidelity result.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 22:00
Non-spoiler quote:
Quote:
Peter's character is just about the most powerful superhero that has ever been created. But of course the full extent of the powers largely depends on what other people he runs into.
I suppose that's true, to some extent, since his power is really a meta-power to acquire other powers, and there seems to be no boundary to the sort of powers that are out there, somewhere. The related question of whether Peter can adequately control his powers was, I thought, addressed through his interactions with Mr. Invisible, who helped him learn how to control himself. As such, any future explosive events can, perhaps, be interpreted as being something he did deliberately.
(I'm sure that even Sylar needs to practice his powers. I'm modestly curious if/how Sylar figured out how to squelch the super-hearing he picked up several episodes ago, since that particular power doesn't appear to have an on/off switch.)
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 01/05/2007 23:44
My apologies for the confusion. I understand what you're saying now. And I apologize, but I only have two things I need to say about it:
Spoiler:
1) V fgvyy guvax gung svir lrnef nsgre n ubeevoyr rirag yvxr gung pna punatr gurfr crbcyr va jnlf gung pbhyq yrnq gurz gb nyy fbegf bs bhgpbzrf. V'z fhecevfrq lbh guvax guvf vf fb sne srgpurq.
2) Gur Unvgvna jnfa'g pbzcyrgryl hfryrff gb gur cybg bs gur rcvfbqr. Ur unf gur novyvgl gb fryrpgviryl pbageby jub'f cbjref ur vauvovgvat. Jr fnj guvf jura ur fgbccrq Flyne, ohg Rir jnf noyr gb hfr ure novyvgl gb znxr uvz hapbafpvbhf. Sbe guvf cnegvphyne rcvfbqr, gurl arrqrq uvz fb Cnexzna pbhyq vagreebtngr Uveb.Okay, I'm done. I definitely don't think this show is the best on TV, but I do think it's improved as the season has progressed.
Bruno, it's apparent you have a different taste in TV. I guess we just have our own preferences.
But you're wrong about Veronica
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 00:18
Spoiler:
Gvzr geniry pna ernyyl zhpx hc n cybg.
Jung jr fnj va ynfg avtug'f fubj juvyr vagrerfgvat jnf zbfgyl guebjnjnl. Bayl gur cnegf gung lbhat Uveb naq Naqb rkcrevraprq jvyy unir nal erny vzcnpg ba shgher fubjf. V qba'g ybbx gb frr zber nybat guvf yvar. Fbzr ubj V qba'g guvax jr ernyyl xabj jub vf tbvat gb xvyy WE. Fb gb fcrnx. Nf gurer frrzf gb abj or guerr cbffvoyr fhfcrpgf va gur ahxvat bs AL.
ps: Don't replace the word "and" with an ampersand inside of spoiler tags. Something in the function doesn't like it.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 00:37
Spoiler:
Gurer'f ab dhrfgvba nobhg jub ahxrf AL - bayl ubj/jul. Vg'f Crgre naq vg nyjnlf unf orra. Vg jnf cerqvpgrq ol Vfnnp'f ivfvbaf, pbasvezrq ol Yvaqrezna naq ntnva va ynfg avtug'f rcvfbqr ol Crgre uvzfrys.
Gur ernfba ynfg avtug'f rcvfbqr jnf jbaxl sbe gur Unvgvna... Nf vf nccnerag gb gur nhqvrapr, gur Unvgvna jnf nyernql ntnvafg gur jvfurf bs gur pbzcnal cevbe gb hf qvfpbirevat gung UET jnf va snpg n orggre crefba ng urneg. Gur Unvgvna urycrq pynve, urycrq UET, rgp.
Ur jnf nyfb n shtvgvir sebz gur pbzcnal naq yvxryl bar jub jbhyq or ryvzvangrq vs sbhaq naq abg noyr gb or pbagebyyrq. Gung'f gur cvrpr gung jnf zvffvat ynfg avtug. Ab rkcynangvba be vaqvpngvba bs jung jnf tbvat ba jvgu uvz. Znlor jr'yy frr fbzrguvat gb rkcynva vg be znlor jr jba'g. Unq gurl abg unq uvz va gur rcvfbqr vg jbhyq unir whfg orra na rnfvre/pyrnare fryy (nf gurl nyfb yrsg bhg n ahzore bs bgure punenpgref, fbzr bs jubzr jrer zragvbarq nf univat orra ryvzvangrq). I can still see some merit in the original CSI, but the other two shows are complete garbage. The writing and acting is totally sub-par, they're just annoying to watch. Far too many shows use bogus computer interfaces like the forever zooming digital enhancement or the fingerprint database search (seriously what kind of dumb-ass interface would display finger prints as it's searching them? - you'd be there for the next year waiting for it to finish.) But that works for most people, because you know what? The majority of the TV watching public are complete rubes. If you've ever worked various types of trade shows you can get a reallly good sampling of what comes out of the woodwork and how even people who work every day with different types of technology know next to nothing about it.
But nothing on TV right now is as bad as something I saw a little bit of a few nights ago. I was doing work and had it on in the background but had to turn it off before throwing up all over my keyboard. The Dukes of Hazzard in Hollywood. Wow, what a total crapfest. I thought for sure Veronica Marrs was going to show up and help them against the bad guys.
But hey, there's no accounting for taste. Some people think the performances on American Idol are better than those on the Rockstar show (the INXS and Supernova shows of the past two summers). It's like a blind person doing Etch-a-Sketch versus Van Gogh.
BTW, I think some of this post is missing... The spoiler tag content went all weird and I didn't use ampersands. For some reason some "oe" tags (HTML style with pointy braces) appeared scattered within it. I'll try not to edit this post again, lest it get even more cac'd.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 01:08
Spoiler:
BX, V jnf jbexvat haqre gur nffhzcgvba gung Flyne arrqrq uvf cbjre gb jbex orsber ur pbhyq fgrny bguref' cbjref. V qba'g frr ubj ur pbhyq RIRE ndhver gur unvgvna'f cbjre jvgubhg gur unvgvna nyybjvat vg. Nyy gur unvgvna jbhyq unir gb qb vf ghea Flyne'f cbjref bss. Nf gb Crgre'f fpne, gung qbrfa'g znxr frafr gb zr. Ur unf Pynver'f ertra. Ubj pbhyq ur cbffvoyl fpne? Vs Pynver'f trggvat ahxrq ol Fcenthr qvqa'g fpne, V pna'g vzntvar jung jbhyq. Rfcrpvnyyl fhpu n ubeevsvp (nyorvg pbby ybbxvat) bar.
Nf gb Cnexzna jbexvat sbe gur Pbzcnal, V gubhtug vg jnf cerggl fgenvtugsbejneq gung ur guvaxf ur'f qbvat gur evtug guvat. Uvf snzvyl jnf xvyyrq, naq ur oryvrirf ur vf fnivat gur jbeyq sebz gur "qnatrebhf" fcrpvnyf. Gur fnzr barf gung gbbx njnl uvf snzvyl.
Ng yrnfg, V guvax.
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 01:16
Spoiler:
Ynfg avtug'f pbasrffvba ol Crgre zrnaf abguvat gb lbhat Uveb'f ernyvgl. Sbe uvz gur obzo unfa'g unccrarq lrg. Ur'f bayl frra vg qhevat uvf whzcf sbejneq. Vfnnp'f cnvagvatf jrer arire fcrpvsvp nf gb jub gur oheavat zna vf. Gung unf bayl orra fhccbfrq ol inevbhf srneshy crbcyr, vapyhqvat lbhat Crgre uvzfrys.
Juvyr ynfg avtugf Crgre jnf gur oheavat zna, vg jnf bayl sbe gung cbffvoyr shgher. Vg qbrfa'g sbyybj gung lbhat Uveb jba'g punatr guvatf nsgre ergheavat.
ps: Interesting effect, if the closing spoiler tag is left off, the rollover effect is reversed.
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 01:19
Spoiler:
Cnexzna'f snzvyl jrera'g xvyyrq. UET unf gurz va uvqvat. Ur rira unq n cvpgher fvtarq ol Znggurj. V guvax gung vf cneg bs gur qrny orgjrra Cnexzna naq UET.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 02:20
Oh yeah, that's right.....
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 02/05/2007 03:10
Quote:
In particular the allegiance and actions of ... Matt seemed to make absolutely no sense.
Spoiler:
V guvax bar guvat lbh'er sbetrggvat va ertneqf gb Cnexzna vf gung ur qverpgyl oynzrf Uveb sbe gur nagv-(urebrf/fhcref/zhgnagf/jvyqpneqf) cnenabvn. "V'z gnyxvat nobhg zra yvxr lbh naq Fvyne ehvavat vg sbe gur erfg bs hf: znxvat hf yvir va srne, pncgvivgl, naq uvqvat; znxvat hf pubbfr fvqrf ... grnevat snzvyvrf ncneg." Vg frrzf gb zr gung uvf nyyrtvnapr vf abg gb gur Cerfvqrag. Engure, ur'f zreryl hfvat gung cbfvgvba gb rknpg uvf bja whfgvpr. Ur pyrneyl norgf urycvat fbzr fhcref rfpncr, juvpu vaqvpngrf gb zr gung ur vf abg sbyybjvat gur Cerfvqrag. Fheryl gur Cerfvqrag, nf Fvyne, jnagf nyy bs gurz ebhaqrq hc fb gung ur pna gnxr gurve cbjref. (Pregnvayl gung frrzf gb unir orra uvf fbyr zbgvingvba gb guvf cbvag.) V guvax Cnexzna whfg jnagf gb trg evq bs jung ur pbafvqref gb or gur "onq" barf, jurer "onq" znl or fbzrguvat bgure guna jung jr'q pbafvqre gb or onq ba gur fhesnpr.
V nyfb svaq vg vagrerfgvat gung Fvyne qbrfa'g jnag gb gnxr Uveb'f cbjre. Ur fcrpvsvpnyyl nfxf Zbuvaqre gb xvyy Uveb. Qbrf ur nyernql unir gung cbjre fbzrubj? Vs abg, jul tvir hc guvf bccbeghavgl gb trg vg? Gb cerirag Crgre sebz trggvat vg? Crgre nyernql unf vg.
Posted by: Cybjorg
Re: TV sucks - 02/05/2007 03:22
Spoiler:
Dhbgr:
Jvgu ertneq gb gur Unvgvna: jr qba'g xabj ubj znal bgure cbjref gung Flyne znl unir npphzhyngrq. Fbzr bs gubfr pbhyq vaibyir gur novyvgl gb or cflpubybtvpnyyl fhttrfgvir.
Jryy ur pregnvayl qvqa'g npdhver gur cbjre bs fhttrfgvba sebz Rqra ZpPnva, fvapr fur oyrj ure oenvaf bhg orsber ur pbhyq frr jung znqr ure "gvpx".
Edit: removed some extraneous markup, as it was freaking out -wfaulk
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 02/05/2007 03:55
Well, you assume that's the way it works, but you don't know.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 10:26
Spoiler:
Dhbgr:
Jung jr fnj va ynfg avtug'f fubj juvyr vagrerfgvat jnf zbfgyl guebjnjnl. Bayl gur cnegf gung lbhat Uveb naq Naqb rkcrevraprq jvyy unir nal erny vzcnpg ba shgher fubjf. V qba'g ybbx gb frr zber nybat guvf yvar. Fbzr ubj V qba'g guvax jr ernyyl xabj jub vf tbvat gb xvyy WE. Fb gb fcrnx. Nf gurer frrzf gb abj or guerr cbffvoyr fhfcrpgf va gur ahxvat bs AL.
Vg whfg bppheerq gb zr gung jung jr fnj jnf abg na nygreangr shgher. Vg jnf, cbgragvnyyl, gur erny shgher. Guvax nobhg vg. Uveb rknzvarf gur riragf bs gur obzo qnl naq qrgrezvarf gung ur pna cerirag vg sebz unccravat vs Fvyne qvrf. Ohg ur'f onfvat gung ba gur nffhzcgvba gung Fvyne jnf gur bar jub rkcybqrq, jurernf jr'er cerggl fher gung vg'f Crgre. Fb tbvat onpx va gvzr gb fnir gur purreyrnqre naq cerirag Fvyne sebz trggvat ure cbjref vf pbzcyrgryl veeryrinag gb ceriragvat ALP sebz orvat qrfgeblrq. Va snpg, vg znl unir pnhfrq vg, fvapr vgf erny bhgpbzr jnf trggvat Crgre gb unir Pynver'f cbjre, juvpu ceriragrq uvz sebz orvat xvyyrq ol gur funeq bs tynff. Vs Crgre unq qvrq, ALP jbhyqa'g unir rkcybqrq. Bs pbhefr, Uveb xabjf gung ur fgnoorq Fvyne guebhtu gur urneg, lrg fbzrguvat ceriragrq uvz sebz qlvat. Yvaqrezna?
Ybbxvat onpx ba vg, V'z zber naq zber vzcerffrq jvgu gur rcvfbqr. V guvax vg'f gbgnyyl eryrinag, naq vg'f jurer gur fubj'f tbvat gb tb, nyy pbhpurq va gur abgvba gung vg'f na "nygreangr" shgher. Na rcvfbqr lrnef sebz abj zvtug jryy or fvzcyl n ereha bs guvf rcvfbqr.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 10:39
Spoiler:
Nyfb, V qba'g xabj jura vg unccrarq, ohg V guvax Anguna vf nyernql qrnq. Ng bar cbvag va gur shgher rcvfbqr, gur Cerfvqrag iveghnyyl dhbgrf Yvaqrezna'f havgr hf va srne fcrrpu, juvpu jnf fnvq bayl gb Anguna. Gung vzcyvrf gung rvgure vg jnfa'g Anguna, ohg Flyne, jub urneq gung fcrrpu, be Flyne bayl gbbx Anguna'f cynpr nsgre gung fcrrpu. Be, cbgragvnyyl, gur gjb ner jbexvat va pnubbgf.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 11:32
Man, all these spoiler tags are wreaking havoc. I tried responding three times, and each time it replaced my post with yours again. Anyway:
Spoiler:
V qba'g guvax gung'f gur pnfr, ohg vg qrcraqf ba jung cbjre lbh guvax Flyne vf hfvat gb zvzvp Anguna. V guvax jr'er fhccbfrq gb nffhzr gung vg'f Zvffl'f punenpgre'f cbjre, ohg fvapr fur'f nyvir va cerfrag qnl...
Gung znxrf zr oryvrir gung ng fbzr cbvag, Flyne jvcrq bhg gur pbzcnal naq fgbyr gur cbjref bs rirelbar jbexvat sbe vg.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 11:39
Spoiler:
Nu, gung'f n tbbq cbvag. Gung jbhyq yrnir zl nygreangr bcgvba gung Flyne ercynprq Anguna qhevat gur pbhefr bs gur rcvfbqr.
I've found that you can't have two spoiler tags in the same post for some reason. It replaces the text of the second one with the text of the first.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 12:20
Spoiler:
V whfg jnagrq gb puvzr va ba gur jubyr "vf Crgre ernyyl erfcbafvoyr sbe gur obzo" guvat. VZB, lrf, ur pregnvayl vf. Ohg V guvax gur erny ceboyrz jvgu nal qrongr ba gur fhowrpg vf gung jr qba'g xabj jul gurer'f na rkcybfvba. Nyy jr'ir frra fb sne vf Crgre'f qernzf gung ur'f oybjvat hc sbe ab fcrpvsvp ernfba. Ohg gubfr qernzf pna'g rira or npphengr, orpnhfr gurer ner crbcyr va vg jub jrer fgvyy nyvir va gur shgher rcvfbqr.
Jr jrer yrq gb oryvrir, ng svefg, gung Crgre rkcybqrf orpnhfr ur pna'g pbageby uvf cbjref naq ur fbzrubj bireybnqf (ol gur jnl, vfa'g guvf fbzrguvat gung unccrarq gb Ebthr ng bar cbvag?). Gur ceboyrz jvgu gung vf gung jr'ir frra gung Crgre pna qrsvavgryl pbageby uvf cbjref, ng yrnfg gb fbzr qrterr. Ng gur irel yrnfg, ur xabjf ubj gb syl, naq pbhyq fvzcyl syl bss vagb gur ngzbfcurer be gb n qrfbyngr nern bs gur pbhagel vafgrnq bs gur zvqqyr bs ALP.
This is one of the funniest looking threads I've seen on this board.
These spoiler tags can be a mess, too...
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 12:59
It was somewhat obvious that...
Spoiler:
Flyne unq ercynprq Anguna ng fbzr cbvag va gur cnfg, cevbe gb gur shgher rcvfbqr. Flyne nyfb zragvbaf fcrpvsvpnyyl gung ur bognvarq gur zbecuvat/qvfthvfr cbjref sebz "Pnaqvpr," gur punenpgre cynlrq ol Zvffl Crertelz - fur'f qrnq va gur shgher rcvfbqr, nyvir va gur "cerfrag qnl" rcvfbqrf.
Jurgure be abg Flyne xvyyf Anguna orsber be nsgre gur obzo/rkcybfvba vf haxabja, ohg jnf cebonoyl vagraqrq gb or gung jnl. Gur fgbel pna jbex rvgure jnl. Crgre xabjf Flyne qvqa'g qvr, ohg ur nyfb qbrfa'g xabj Anguna jnf xvyyrq. Crgre zragvbaf gung ur naq Anguna xabjvatyl pbirerq hc gur snpg vg jnf uvz jub rkcybqrq, ohg guvf fgvyy qbrfa'g gryy hf vs vg jnf "uvz" ng gung cbvag (va gur cnfg) be Flyne.
V'z abg rira fher vg znggref jub oybjf hc, gur zbfg vzcbegnag (vagrerfgvat naljnl) qrirybczrag vf fher gb or JUL. V'z cerggl pbasvqrag gung gur fubj jvyy jenc gur rkcybqvat zna guernq va gur ynfg rcvfbqr be svefg rcvfbqr bs frnfba 2. Vg'f n svefg-frnfba cybg yvar.
Anyway, great episode and the couple of small items I mentioned at first are still my only concerns.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 13:02
I see that if I attempt to edit the previous post it puts a lot of those garbage tags into my text, so I'll just add one correction here.
When I wrote "him" in the first paragraph (which appears in quotes) I meant Nathan.
I can't remember the last time I've ever participated in a thread about a running plot in a TV show. Maybe never in this fashion. I've seen threads that border on losing a grip with one's reality on network TV forums though. Glad this isn't exactly that fanatical. When I discuss TV it's usually from artistic and/or technical perspectives. I'm not one to immerse myself in the fictionalized world of the characters.
That's the same way I draw my opinion of any movie or TV show. I view the product as a work of art that takes both an enormous amount of creative and technical talent on many fronts to accomplish. Maybe it's somewhat a systematic approach, but it just comes so natural that it's not something I have to use a check-list for. It's also why I feel Heroes is the "best" program on prime-time TV today.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 02/05/2007 13:08
Spoiler:
Vg ybbxrq gb zr yvxr, va gur qernz, gur rkcybfvba jnf cerzrqvgngrq. Vg ybbxrq nf vs gurl jrer gelvat gb nppbzcyvfu fbzrguvat. Fb sne, Crgre'f qernzf unir orra npphengr, vs abg pyrne. Juvpu oevatf zr gb:
Vg'f vagrerfgvat ubj znal bs gur cbjref gung jr'ir frra ner gjvaf bs bguref. Boivbhfyl, Crgre'f naq Flyne'f zrgn-cbjref. Ohg nyfb Pynver naq Yvaqrezna, naq Zvpnu naq Unan. Bguref bpphe, gbb. Flyne'f bevtvany cbjre (haqrefgnaqvat ubj guvatf jbex) jnf irel fvzvyne gb Zvpnu'f nf jryy. Naq Crgre frrzf gb nyfb unir gur cbjre bs cerpbtavgvba, yvxr Vfnnp, rkprcg guebhtu qernzf vafgrnq bs guebhtu genaprf.
Vg'f frrzf gb or abg haxabja sbe crbcyr gb unir zhygvcyr cbjref (gur Unvgvna pna renfr zrzbevrf naq oybpx cbjref, sbe rknzcyr), ohg zbfg bs gur punenpgref jr xabj unir bayl bar. Vf Crgre'f cerpbtavgvba uvf bja cbjre, be bar ur tnvarq sebz fbzrbar ryfr? Vs vg'f gur ynggre, vg'f gur svefg cbjre ur zvzvpxrq, ohg jr qba'g xabj nalbar jvgu gung cbjre. Ubjrire, jr qb xabj fbzrbar jub vf yvxryl gb or cbjrerq jubfr cbjre jr qba'g xabj: Zef. Crgeryyv. Vf fur n cerpbt?
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 03/05/2007 02:20
Quote:
I can't remember the last time I've ever participated in a thread about a running plot in a TV show.
It's the way it's written almost nothing is written with a definite phrase. We are lead to make a lot of assumptions, but many things are left incomplete like when...
Spoiler:
Flyre zrg Pynver, fur jnf nggnpxrq ohg jr jrer yrsg gb vzntvar gur shyy naq tehrfbzr raq.
That could just be good television, but since the end wasn't definitively shown, there is room to revisit that ending.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 02:06
Tonight's Heroes was pretty good. Only one nit-pick:
Spoiler:
Ng gur ortvaavat bs gur rcvfbqr, jura Flyne pnyyf Zbuvaqre, Flyne gryyf Zbuvaqre gung ur pna urne uvz qvnyvat 911. Jul ba rnegu jbhyq Zbuvaqre qvny 911?
Naljnl, V qb jbaqre jul Uveb'f cbjre qvqa'g jbex ba Flyne. Vg nccrnerq gb ng svefg, ohg gura qvqa'g. Vg'f n yvggyr hasnve gb gur ivrjvat nhqvrapr vs gur jevgref pna znxr hc n cbjre gung jr unira'g frra Flyne fgrny whfg gb trg uvz bhg bs n pbeare. Gung'f n ovg bs n purng. Ng yrnfg gurl'ir xrcg fbzr pbagvahvgl, va gung jr fnj uvz hfvat vpr va gur shgher, naq gung'f jung jr fnj uvz hfr sbe gung fabj tybor sbe Nhqerl.
Posted by: gbeer
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 05:11
Spoiler:
(rqvg: Uveb'f cbjre) Vg frrzrq gb hayrff Flyre jnf snxvat, ohg V guvax gung pbagnpg oebhtug Flyre vagb Uveb'f gvzr senzr. Ohg gung vf nyy bire gur znc orpnhfr Naqb fubhyq unir sebmr.
V gubhtug Crgre nyernql unq gur rkcybqvat zna'f cbjre. Qvqa'g gur vaivfvoyr thl pbyq pbpx uvz gb fgbc na hapbagebyyrq rcvfbqr.
V cerqvpg gung ahxvat AL vfa'g tbvat gb unccra. Ohg gurz erfcbafvoyr sbe gur vqrn jvyy qebc onpx naq gel fbzrguvat qvssrerag. Gur urebrf jvyy or zbfgyl bar fgrc oruvaq rkprcg jura gurl unir gb or whfg va gvzr.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 10:40
Spoiler:
V qba'g dhvgr haqrefgnaq lbhe svefg fragrapr. "Vg frrzrq gb" jung? Naljnl, V qba'g guvax vg jnf pbzcyrk nf "oevatvat Flyne vagb Uveb'f gvzrsenzr." Uveb vf onpx va gur cnfg, naq gurer vf ab nygreangr gvzrsenzr. Guvf vf gur bevtvany bar jr'er ybbxvat ng abj. Qba'g znxr vg zber pbzcyvpngrq guna vg nyernql vf
Crgre qvqa'g nyernql unir Grq'f cbjre. Ur'f arire zrg Grq orsber. Gung jnf whfg Crgre'f inevbhf cbjref bireybnqvat. V ernyyl guvax gung nofbyhgryl abguvat jvyy unccra va gur fdhner arkg jrrx. Crgre jvyy trg gur cbjre haqre pbageby va n pbhcyr zvahgrf. Ur'f whfg sernxvat bhg orpnhfr ur guvaxf guvf vf gur zbzrag bs gur obzo. Bapr ur frggyrf qbja ur'yy or bxnl. V'z irel phevbhf gb frr ubj Zvpnu svgf vagb gur rkcybfvba. Gur cerivrjf fubj uvz ernpuvat bhg gb gur pvgl, naq V pna'g vzntvar ubj uvf cbjre jvyy or hfrq.
Posted by: petteri
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 12:39
Spoiler:
Jul rknpgyl qbrf Flyne guvax vg vf tbvat gb or uvz gung rkcybqrf? Vg vg uvz gur gur cnvagvatf? V guvax V zvffrq fbzrguvat urer....
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 13:55
Sylar doesn't know everything we know from having watched all the previous episodes (obviously). He's been out of the loop all things considered.
Spoiler:
Fvapr ur whfg cvpxrq hc Vfnnp'f novyvgvrf, ur pna abj frr gung AL trgf qrfgeblrq. Ur'f cnvagrq uvzfrys arkg gb Grq (ze raretl) naq qhr gb uvf bja terrq hc gb guvf cbvag, nffhzrf vg jvyy or uvz jub jvyy or erfcbafvoyr sbe gur rkcybfvba. Vfnnp nyfb zragvbarq gung ur jbhyq or fgbccrq/xvyyrq ohg qvqa'g fnl ubj.
Sbe Zngg, lbh zvfhaqrefgbbq Tyraa'f cbfg. Ur qvqa'g zna gb vzcyl "gvzryvar" nf va gur shgher rcvfbqr jr fnj. Ur whfg zrnag gung vg'f n cbffvovyvgl Flyne jnf pbafpvbhf jvguva Uveb'f sebmra vafgnapr bs gvzr (yvxr Crgre va gur rcvfbqr shgher Uveb ivfvgf uvz va gur fhojnl).
V jvyy unir gb ercynl gung cneg bs gur rcvfbqr, ohg V whfg nffhzrq gung Flyne fbzrubj fanccrq gvzr onpx vagb zbgvba. Qba'g xabj vs guvf jnf qhr gb Uveb'f jnirevat, fbzr fcrpvny Flyne novyvgl be whfggur havirefr fnlvat "Ubyq ba abj! Lbh'er abg qbvat guvf ng gur evtug gvzr, Uveb."
V qvq svaq vg vagrerfgvat gung gur cerfvqragvny frrq unf orra cynagrq va Flyne'f zvaq. Avpr jnl gb gvr onpx gb gur shgher rcvfbqr.
Flyne svefg hfrq gur serrmvat novyvgl va bar bs gur nggebpvbhfyl jevggra jro pbzvpf. V'ir ernq n srj ohg V whwfg pna'g gbegher zlfrys jvgu gurz - gurl'er gung cnvashy gb ernq.
Fbzrguvat irel vagrerfgvat sebz guvf rcvfbqr vf Pnaqvpr'f novyvgl gb abg bayl punatr ure bja nccrnenapr, ohg gb cebwrpg na ragver raivebazrag gb ure gnetrgf. V fhccbfr guvf jnf uvagrq va gur rcvfbqr jurer fur nccrnerq nf Vfnnp'f tveysevraq juvyr uvqvat gur erny pbecfr sebz gur cbyvpr, ohg V nyjnlf whfg nffhzrq Fvzbar'f pbecfr jnf whfg bhg bs ivrj.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 14:31
Spoiler:
Vg jnfa'g whfg Flyne gung fanccrq onpx vagb zbgvba. Vg qrsvavgryl frrzrq gb zr gung Uveb'f fgbc-gvzr novyvgl jnf vagreehcgrq, naq rirelguvat fgnegrq zbivat ntnva. V'z abg fher ubj gung unccrarq. Jura Uveb ivfvgrq Crgre ba gur fhojnl, V guvax jr'er fhccbfrq gb nffhzr gung "Shgher Uveb" checbfrshyyl fgbccrq rirelbar ohg Crgre. V pna'g vzntvar jul "Cerfrag Uveb" jbhyq jnag gb serrmr rirelguvat ohg Flyne, fb V qba'g guvax gung'f gur fnzr guvat. We should really just start talking without spoilers. If people haven't seen the week's episode yet, they don't need to read the thread. Or we could start a new thread, considering this one has gotten off subject
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 15:12
Quote:
We should really just start talking without spoilers. If people haven't seen the week's episode yet, they don't need to read the thread. Or we could start a new thread, considering this one has gotten off subject
Please, no. Please continue to spoilertag. I plan to watch this week's episode tonight.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 15:15
I think a new thread would make sense.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 15:58
I started a new thread just a minute ago...
Now we can go back to how (network) TV currently sucks...
24 just gets more and more insane with every episode. That show knows no limits to poor writing, continuity, time lapse and of course with some performances so bad they deserve special award recognition (even the Razzies are too good for them).
I'm also upset to see NBC back to its old tricks of shifting schedules around such that shows don't end or start on the hour. Along with advertising "more after the break" only to show nothing but credits after the last commercial. Some 30 minute programs have also been cut down beyond their normal lengths with seemingly endless streams of commercials.
Posted by: andy
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 16:22
Quote:
24 just gets more and more insane with every episode. That show knows no limits to poor writing, continuity, time lapse and of course with some performances so bad they deserve special award recognition (even the Razzies are too good for them).
Why on earth are you watching it then ? Surely life is too short to carry on watching TV that you know sucks ?
We stopped watching 24 sometime early in season 3, it already sucked big time then.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 16:49
Season 3 was okay, but I think that's the end of it. I liked season 2 the best, except for the Kim subplot. I believe that if you separated that subplot from the show, it would be the worst story ever put on TV. By the time she was facing off against a mountain lion, it was really approaching the realm of comedy.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 16:56
Maybe somebody needs to do something analogous to the
Phantom Edit for 24. I'll bet you could knock the full season down to six hours or so and it would probably work much better.
(Now I just need to watch the latest episode of Heroes so I can go over to the other thread...)
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 18:08
I'm watching it because I put in enough time to start the thing off I'm determined to follow through even if it stinks to high hell. I wouldn't feel right about making comments with regards to its crapitude unless I had some experience with said stink-fest.
24 could easily be saved at the start of any given season. They already throw out all but bits of previous seasons. They need to:
1. move the story line out of LA. - perhaps move it outside the US (i'd love a season set at least partially on foreign soil)
2. drop CTU from the whole season
3. include Keifer's Jack Bauer character in the majority of scenes (right now it's like he's in a supporting role only)
4. get rid of all the sub-stories. We need only 1 good story with a little side action at most.
5. fire all the current people responsible for writing dialogue.
6. don't ever (not ever again) let Powers Booth in front of a camera.
7. drop the 5 minute recap at the start of each episode - it eats too much air time.
8. scale down the threat level - not every season needs to be about saving the whole country/world.
9. start paying attention to the original real-time concept again (currently it's out the window).
10. stop using the phrase "within the hour"
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 20:08
I finally got around to watching the 4/30 and the 5/7 episodes of Heroes last night, and they affirmed my previously unacted-upon decision to remove the show from my Tivo's Season Pass collection.
I'm not saying that it isn't a good show, it just isn't a good show for me.
I have seen every single episode, but I don't sit there taking notes, researching plot developments and scenarios on the internet, and studying intently every nuance of character and dialog. Frequently I am doing other things at the same time I watch the show.
As a result, I have only the vaguest idea of what the hell is going on with the show! I mean, there must be close to a dozen different storylines to follow, with bunches of characters who are similar enough in appearance they are difficult for me to tell apart. I guess some of them can masquerade as others.
I don't want to work that hard in order to watch a TV show!
tanstaafl.
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 08/05/2007 23:38
That's weird. The only characters I think are difficult to tell apart at first are DL and the Hatian, but I got them straight within an episode or two.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 04:27
Doug has stated about how he hates to actually think about a TV show many times in the past. Personally, I find it that much more rewarding than being told some simple story, but he finds it frustrating.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 04:42
Spoiler:
Zbuvaqre naq Flyne: jura lbh'ir tbg n penmrq xvyyre ba gur cubar jub arneyl xvyyrq lbh, lbhefrys, gura frr jung xvaq bs fzneg be qhzo zbir gung lbh raq hc znxvat. Jub gur uryy pbhyq ur pnyy, naljnl?
Flyne naq Uveb: gur nqiregvfrzragf znqr vg frrz yvxr Flyne ybbxrq hc juvyr gvzr jnf sebmra, ohg gur fubj znqr vg frrz zber yvxr Uveb ybfg uvf pbapragengvba naq erfgnegrq gvzr. Na nygreangr gurbel vf gung ur arrqrq gvzr gb npghnyyl or va zbgvba gb znxr gur fjbeq npghnyyl phg Flyne. Tvira nyy gur frghc nobhg gur ohfuvqb pbqr naq jungabg, V'z tbvat jvgu "ybfg uvf pbapragengvba."
Bu penc, Vfnnp-fna vf qrnq: Abj, sbe pregnva, jr unir rivqrapr bs gur qviretrag gvzryvarf. V'ir nethrq orsber gung jr pbhyq unir orra ybbxvat ng n fvatyr gvzryvar nyy gur jnl nybat. Abj, Uveb abgrf gung jung jr frr guvf gvzr nebhaq vf qvssrerag sebz jung ur fnj orsber. (Trr, Uveb, ubj nobhg ebyyvat gur pybpx onpx rneyvre gb tb pung jvgu Vfnnp orsber ur qvrq?)
Yvaqrezna: Abj jr xabj, sbe fher, gung Yvaqrezna naq gur Crgeryyv zbz ner va pnubbgf naq jnag gur obzo gb unccra. Na vagrerfgvat dhrfgvba vf jurgure gurl fbzrubj neenatrq sbe gur pbvapvqragny ohzcvat gbtrgure bs Crgre &nzc; sverobl. Gung'f cebonoyl whfg fbzrguvat gung trgf svyrq haqre "ybgf bs pbvapvqragny zrrgvatf unccra va guvf fubj."
Jung arkg sebz Uveb? Ur'f pyrneyl tbg gb trg gur fjbeq svkrq. Ohg qbrf gur gvzr geniry fghss jbex jvgubhg gur fjbeq? Crgre pna gvzr geniry nf jryy, naq jr xabj ur pna qb vg jvgubhg gur fjbeq.
Crgre tbrf xnobbz? Znlor. Vg'f orra sbefrra / sberfunqbjrq, ohg guvf vf pyrneyl gur ovt zlfgrel. Yvxrjvfr ubj gur ynfg irfgvtrf bs gur "byq" Flyne jrer jvcrq bhg jura ur xvyyrq uvf zbz naq gur "V pbhyq or Cerfvqrag" yvar. V thrff lbh pna'g unir n fhcre-ivyyvna gurfr qnlf jvgubhg tenghvgbhf cneragny vagrenpgvba. *fvtu*
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 05:00
Spoiler:
Uveb abgrf gung jung jr frr guvf gvzr nebhaq vf qvssrerag sebz jung ur fnj orsber.
Ur znl unir fnvq gung, ohg V qba'g xabj gung jr pna gehfg gung jung gur punenpgref fnl vf "gehr". Nsgre nyy, shgher Uveb jnf pbaivaprq gung fnivat gur purreyrnqre jbhyq fnir gur jbeyq, ohg gur purreyrnqre jnf fnirq va uvf gvzryvar naq ur qvqa'g xabj vg.
Jnf gurer nal npghny rivqrapr gung jung unccrarq va guvf rcvfbqr qvq abg unccra va gur shgher rcvfbqr'f cnfg? V qba'g guvax fb, ohg V pbhyq or jebat.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 06:01
Quote:
Quote:
24 just gets more and more insane with every episode. That show knows no limits to poor writing, continuity, time lapse and of course with some performances so bad they deserve special award recognition (even the Razzies are too good for them).
Why on earth are you watching it then ? Surely life is too short to carry on watching TV that you know sucks ?
We stopped watching 24 sometime early in season 3, it already sucked big time then.
I missed 24 when it started, but heard all of my friends talking about, so I figured I'd get into it eventually. I can't just pick up a show halfway into it. If it's got any kind of running story at all, I've got to start at the beginning. So, when the episodes started rerunning on cable, I set up a wishlist on TiVo to catch them until I had enough to start at the beginning.
Just last night, about 2/3 of the way through season 3, I decided, "F this. This show is retarded". I figured after watching 2 2/3 seasons of this and seeing the show have to resort to the same plot devices over and over, the exact same setups, and the exact same conflicts, I was sure to only get more of the same. By this time, I had the entire remaining run of the show up to last nights new episode on the TiVo, and I deleted it all.
I was second guessing myself today. Like Bruno, once I started into it I felt a sort of obligation to finish. But I'm feeling pretty good tonight about my decision to kick. I'll be able to put that ~82 hours (minus commercials plus who knows how many other seasons they'll make) to much better use, and my TiVo's breathing a lot easier now with so much more space available.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 10:29
Quote:
I can't just pick up a show halfway into it. If it's got any kind of running story at all, I've got to start at the beginning.
I am just like that as well. However, I think you'll agree that it makes almost no difference what order you watch the seasons of 24.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 10:33
Spoiler:
Qna, V nffhzr lbh'er ersreevat gb zr (V pna'g gryy jvgubhg dhbgvat, juvpu vf jul jr'ir zbirq gur Urebrf qvfphffvba gb nabgure guernq). V unir gb qvfnterr jvgu lbh, gubhtu. Nf gur "urycshy" erpncf unq whfg gbyq hf n srj zvahgrf orsber, Zbuvaqre jnf abj va pbagnpg jvgu "Gur Pbzcnal," fb cerfhznoyl ur'q pnyy gurz. V qba'g guvax ur'q or fb qhzo nf gb pnyy gur pbcf. Jung gur uryy jbhyq gurl qb?
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 13:54
I responded on the "spoilers" thread rather than over here...
Posted by: RobotCaleb
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 14:38
Quote:
Just last night, about 2/3 of the way through season 3, I decided, "F this. This show is retarded".
I said that after suffering through the first season. I don't see why people consider the show to be good.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 15:22
Quote:
Quote:
Just last night, about 2/3 of the way through season 3, I decided, "F this. This show is retarded".
I said that after suffering through the first season. I don't see why people consider the show to be good.
Well, they certainly keep you on the edge of your seat, and Jack Bauer is definitely one of the most badass characters around (he's so tough he doesn't have to pee).
Aside from that the writing is dull, the plots aren't very creative, most of the characters do really dumb things that no sane person would do, and the whole show is repetitive. Other than that, it's great!
I wish someone would create a list of the dumbest TV characters of all time, just so Kim Bauer could be right there on the top. She is the stupidest character ever. yet somehow she became a computer technician worthy of CTU in just three years (between season two and three). Riiiight...
Posted by: Roger
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 18:39
Quote:
Maybe somebody needs to do something analogous to the Phantom Edit for 24.
I've got seasons 1 to 4 on DVD, which the wife and I have watched in large chunks, which means that I can skip past the "last time on 24..." stuff. It also meant that we could skip past all the Kim and Teri bits, making the whole thing much shorter and more enjoyable.
24 ain't high art, but it is enjoyable, as long as you don't take it too seriously.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 18:46
Roger, just wait until you see Season 6... IMO, the difference to past seasons is night and day. As if I need to say it again, not in a good way.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 20:10
I gave up on 24 after season 3- though had it been on TV I'd have probably stopped midway through (we'd already purchased the DVD set).
I really enjoyed season 1 and 2, though.
Someone gave me season 1 of Prison Break on DVD for Christmas and we really enjoyed that, though I haven't watched any of Season 2 yet.
I still like Lost, though I understand most have given up on it these days (I haven't watched the past three weeks due to my wife being out of town, though, so no spoilers!).
Also, Earl is still a main staple for us as well.
We never did get into Heros. I'll probably buy the DVD set after the end of the first season if you guys still give it the thumbs up, though
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 20:28
I totally don't understand why people are badmouthing Lost these days. It's like they had a couple mediocre episodes and everyone bailed. It feels to me largely like the same show it always was, only they've told you a good portion of the backstories of all the characters, so you don't get these huge character reveals anymore. But, then, people complain when they introduce new characters, which is the only way you're really going to have that same sort of huge character modification any more.
Then people get whiny that they're not revealing anything. Well, of course they're not revealing the main mystery; they've got 48 more episodes to go after this season. But it's not like they're not adding any more information.
People are just whiny. They want to know the secret behind the magic trick, but once they find out, they're not going to be interested any more. Losers.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 20:48
Quote:
I totally don't understand why people are badmouthing Lost these days. It's like they had a couple mediocre episodes and everyone bailed. It feels to me largely like the same show it always was, only they've told you a good portion of the backstories of all the characters, so you don't get these huge character reveals anymore. But, then, people complain when they introduce new characters, which is the only way you're really going to have that same sort of huge character modification any more.
Then people get whiny that they're not revealing anything. Well, of course they're not revealing the main mystery; they've got 48 more episodes to go after this season. But it's not like they're not adding any more information.
People are just whiny. They want to know the secret behind the magic trick, but once they find out, they're not going to be interested any more. Losers.
Oh good. I am glad I not the only one who feels this way, because you've pretty much nailed my feelings IMHO. I don't know why I ever listen to the opinions of people not on this forum 
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 09/05/2007 21:04
I'm still very interested in Lost and it's still one of my favorites. Every now and then there's a weak episode, but even those have some interesting elements. Every now and then one of the back stories is also somewhat weak. I'm fine not knowing everything, but to keep people interested they need to wrap some details while introducing other plots before the series ends.
Lost has suffered a bit by not having as well developed a story line ahead of time as it could have. There have been a lot of details and changes that were last minute decisions, not the least of which has been cast turn-over. A seemingly very well developed play book is why I think Heroes is doing so well.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: TV sucks - 10/05/2007 00:27
Quote:
Another that I started from the begining with is Prison Break, and this season has also been a complete clusterf&ck.
Hmmm, I missed this the first time around. So not worth getting when it comes out on DVD? Too bad, cause I really liked the first season a lot.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 10/05/2007 00:30
The second season didn't really hold a candle to the first. I came really close to stopping to watch it, but the last few episodes were pretty interesting, and made me interested in next season. If you can wait, I'd wait for a report on season 3 before investing in season 2, either fiscally or temporally.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 00:32
* applause *
Bitt, you hit the nail on the head. I agree with your comments 100%.
Personally, I thought season 2 of Lost wasn't as strong as the first, but that's to be expected of many shows. Besides, I think season 1 of Lost is one of the best seasons of TV ever made, so it's hard to live up to that.
But that doesn't matter, because that's not what turned people off of the show. I think most people bailed early on this season just because, like you said, "they weren't revealing enough." I have to ask these people what show they're watching, because as far as I can see they reveal stuff all the time. There's constantly new information. The only thing is that most of the information brings up new questions, but I
love that.
It's okay, though. I feel sorry for the people who bailed on Lost, because most of them did it before the third season
really picked up. The first Desmond flashback episode was probably the mark of the turnaround, and easily the strongest episode of the second and third seasons as of yet. It seemed to me that the show really found its footing again and has been doing really well ever since. His other flashback episode was nearly just as good.
Quote:
A seemingly very well developed play book is why I think Heroes is doing so well.
Bruno, you know I like Heroes, but I think it's unfair to say to say that before the first season is even done. Who knows what the play book will look like 3/4 of the way through it's third season. I'm not as confident as you about it.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 00:58
It's safe to say based on interviews with the people behind both series. Early on the producers of Lost made it very clear they had some ideas but that it was very open. The people behind Heroes seem to have a better grasp of making sure the show maintains its hook, but still wraps up enough plot lines to keep people from getting bored as well as picking up new viewers.
The HUGE mistake with Lost was taking it off the air for so many weeks. That's what killed it for many people. Some didn't come back to watch and others were expecting some big explanations in the first new episode.
I'm not sure whether to be glad or sad that JJ Abrams isn't with the show any more. Het let Alias go to complete garbage which was evident by the third season. Thankfully Lost is holding on strong right now.
I think Heroes is a more enjoyable (and creative) program than even the first season of Lost. It started really strong for me because of the similarities to Unbreakable.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 01:02
A somewhat new "sitcom" I'm enjoying is Notes from the Underbelly about 30-somethings in L.A. having their first baby and dealing with their changing lives.
Things are also looking good for a 7th season of Scrubs which is good news. #1 hospital/medical show IMO.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 01:49
Well, I certainly can't disagree with your statement about the breaks, but naturally you can't blame the show for that.
I'm constantly frustrated by the networks and their horrible scheduling. The only explanation I can give is that they fear the off season and are deluding themselves into thinking that multiple two-month long breaks aren't the same exact thing.
*edit*
Just to be fair, it's not like Heroes is immune to the extended breaks. In just it's first season, it's had two seven week breaks.
Posted by: lectric
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 01:51
Amen. Scrubs is a great show. I was really disappointed that they dropped 3lbs after 3 episodes. That was a cool show as well. Well, the first three episodes were good, anyway. Firefly is still on top of my "I can't believe they canceled this" list, though.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 08:22
Quote:
Early on the producers of Lost made it very clear they had some ideas but that it was very open.
Open in the sense of the individual characters, but the overall plot was mapped out over 5 seasons very specifically. The first season was an introduction, the second revealed the hatch, the third focused on the others, the fourth and fifth . . .
Personally, I've really enjoyed the show, and I still trust it that we are going somewhere specific (not like the x-files where they just invented stuff as they go along). I can't wait until we can get into Heros, though. Sounds like a solid show.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: TV sucks - 10/05/2007 08:24
Quote:
If you can wait, I'd wait for a report on season 3 before investing in season 2, either fiscally or temporally.
Ah, thanks for the feedback. We might do exactly that.
Too bad, though, I really enjoyed season 1 a lot.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Heros on 4-30-07 - 10/05/2007 08:28
Quote:
Quote:
I can't just pick up a show halfway into it. If it's got any kind of running story at all, I've got to start at the beginning.
I am just like that as well. However, I think you'll agree that it makes almost no difference what order you watch the seasons of 24.
At the end there, I became pretty convinced that it made no difference what order I watched the individual episodes.
Ugghh. My head still hurts.
Posted by: Cybjorg
Lost on 5/16 - 17/05/2007 08:18
Spoiler:
Fb vs gur pnfgnjnlf arrqrq gb phg bss gur wnzzvat fvtany pbzvat sebz gur haqrejngre Ybbxvat Tynff ungpu, jul abg whfg frire gur yvar ehaavat npebff gur ornpu naq vagb gur jngre? Vg jbhyq frrz gung gur yvar cebivqrf ryrpgevpny pncnovyvgvrf gb gur Ybbxvat Tynff. Frirevat gur yvar zvtug fgbc gur fvtany (nffhzvat gung gurl qba'g unir n lrne bs erfreir onggrevrf qbja gurer).
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 17/05/2007 09:26
Spoiler:
Gung jnf zl svefg gubhtug, gbb, ohg V guvax gb or fnsr, lbh'q unir gb nffhzr gung cbjre jnf pbzvat sebz nabgure fbhepr, naq gur pnoyr jnf whfg sbe pbzzf. Vg nyfb frrzrq yvxr gbb fznyy bs n pnoyr sbe gur cbjre erdhverzragf gung n ynetvfu fgngvba zvtug unir (nffhzvat ovt chzcvat naq oernguvat znpuvarel).
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 02:32
I don't know how much the real world applies to Lost, but there's no way that a cable that flexible and that size could possibly be carrying enough power for a station that size. The survivors have to assume that it's at least as big as the hatches, plus it has a lot more power consumption in life support systems if it's underwater.
Posted by: petteri
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 10:15
Not only that, but wasn't the cable frayed? I'm wondering if the ladies under the sea are with Ben or leftovers from the original Dharma gang....
Posted by: Tim
Re: TV sucks - 18/05/2007 11:44
You have no idea how much TV could possibly suck until you live with an 18 year old female. The only thing my TV has on it anymore are goofy assed reality shows, something about deals and Heroes, oh and CSI: Miami. The only reason I know it was Miami is because during one show when I stopped in there to talk, she turned to me and (looking completely serious) goes 'a lot of shit happens in Miami'. I hope she wasn't serious, but it was really hard to tell if she wasn't. It occasionally gets hockey when I chase everybody else out of there because I don't feel like watching it on the crappy 19" TV in my room. I had no idea how bad it was until last night... they were watching some hairdressing competition.
I weep for the future.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 12:12
Bitt, it would have been nice if someone had mentioned the possibility of cutting the cable. Like hurly or Charlie (seeing as he was expecting to die). Then it could have been dismissed by Sayid while consulting the plans
As it stands, even though it may not be the power cable, it could be the communications link going to some antenna/array to do the scrambling.
Over all I can say this has been a very good season of Lost. So much for the nay sayers.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 12:30
Quote:
it would have been nice if someone had mentioned the possibility of cutting the cable
Fair enough.
Quote:
Over all I can say this has been a very good season of Lost. So much for the nay sayers.
Agreed.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 13:37
Quote:
Over all I can say this has been a very good season of Lost. So much for the nay sayers.
I'll third that. I think it got off to a slow start, maybe some leftover sluggishness from (IMO) a lackluster season two, but all of a sudden It came back full force and has been just as good as season one.
I'm really hoping Charlie doesn't actually die. I'm sure it would be hard to give him more flashback episodes, but I think the Charlie-centric episodes have been the most consistently good ones (I particularly liked "The Moth").
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 13:38
Charlie's a compelling character. The one they need to kill off is Jack. He's just a tool.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 14:19
Quote:
Charlie's a compelling character. The one they need to kill off is Jack. He's just a tool.
What, you mean you didn't love the episode that dealt with "the mystery of Jack's tattoo!"? I know it's something that I was obsessing over since the show began.
Yeah, he's been annoying lately. He's just too central a character to kill off. I'm still wondering whether or not they always intended to kill off those two new cast members they brought in at the beginning of the season. I didn't know anyone who liked those characters, so I'm wondering if they offed them due to bad fan reaction
Either way, that was one of the harshest episode endings on the show so far...
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 14:24
They can't kill Jack, it'd collapse the love triangle Sawyer/Kate/Jack. Deflating sexual tension is a classic shark tank move. Won't happen, or if it does it will be at the very last episode of the whole series.
-Zeke
edit: AOL to Jack = Tool
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 14:54
Quote:
They can't kill Jack, it'd collapse the love triangle Sawyer/Kate/Jack.
Ugh. By far my least favorite aspect of the entire show.
I thought it was hilarious how, as early as the first season, they were setting that triangle up. My main problem with it was that at the time, they'd only been on the island for a few weeks or something. I found it a little odd that they've just survived a plane crash and they think there's a monster in the jungle, yet they're finding time to get a love triangle going. It just felt like something the network execs made them put in there.
Jericho had a similar plotline, which is one of the things that made me stop watching the show, because it was so ridiculous and unnatural.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 15:12
Quote:
I'm still wondering whether or not they always intended to kill off those two new cast members they brought in at the beginning of the season.
Are you kidding? Me and my friends were calling them "redshirts" from the moment they said their first lines. It was too obvious.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 15:14
Quote:
I'm really hoping Charlie doesn't actually die.
If it weren't for the constant "you're gonna die" mantra, I might agree. But I'm so sick of it by now, we're all just screaming FOR GOD'S SAKE DIE ALREADY.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 15:57
Actually, they
were killed off due to bad fan reaction.
From the
Lostpedia article on Nikki:
Quote:
According to an Entertainment Weekly article, Nikki and Paulo were originally supposed to be part of a longer storyarc, with one episodes having its flashbacks devoted to Nikki's fictional TV show, Exposé, to end with a surprise twist (presumably revealing that those "flashbacks" were merely part of a TV show Nikki was acting in). Faced with the negative fan backlash to the two characters' abrupt introduction, however, the producers, already facing declining ratings for the show, decided back in December 2006 to trim down the storyarc and kill off the two characters in a single episode.
I think that this is bad juju. Once you start writing your show to appease the whims of the fans, you compromise your story enough that it really starts to go downhill. It's the bellwether for jumping the shark.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:11
Quote:
If it weren't for the constant "you're gonna die" mantra, I might agree. But I'm so sick of it by now, we're all just screaming FOR GOD'S SAKE DIE ALREADY.
I think this is part of a larger plot point myself. I've often contended that Charlie has actually been dead since Ethan hanged him when kidnapping Claire. I think this current storyline is something of a notion that the Island is trying to correct itself. But I could be wrong.
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:31
Spoiler:
Ohg jung nobhg gur snpg gung gur crefba sebz gur bhgfvqr fnvq gur jubyr jerpx bs gur cynar unf orra sbhaq, naq rirelbar baobneq jnf sbhaq qrnq?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:38
Well, the producers of Lost have gone on record many times to say:
Spoiler:
gur fheivibef ner abg nyernql qrnq, gurl'er abg va chetngbel, rgp.
That doesn't mean that they're not lying to us, but I don't think they are.
Assuming that the helicopter girl is telling the truth, it seems more likely that the Hanso Foundation faked it somehow. Of course, I have no inclination to assume that she is telling the truth.
Besides, if you're saying that that's a reason Charlie should be dead, then why not the rest of the survivors, too?
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:46
I've been thinking Hanso coverup as well. I haven't believe that story one bit, just like I don't believe at all that Locke is dead.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:51
Clearly the Island will heal Locke. He might be incapacitated for a while. I think that if one thinks that Locke is dead, he hasn't been paying attention.
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 16:58
I'm keeping my self ignorant of info from the producers, so I didn't know they have said that, and I'm just taking what happens on the show.
Spoiler:
Vs Unafb ena Qunezn, ohg Ora tbg gur bevtvany Qunezn crbcyr xvyyrq, jbhyqa'g Unafb xabj jung unccrarq, naq abg fhccbeg gur pbhc?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 17:02
Quote:
I'm keeping my self ignorant of info from the producers
Oops. Sorry about that, then. Didn't occur to me.
Spoiler:
Lbh nffhzr gung obgu fvqrf jrer abg pbagebyyrq ol Unafb. Vg unf orra fhttrfgrq jvguva gur cebtenz vgfrys gung Unafb/Qunezn jrer vagrerfgrq va cflpubybtvpny rinyhngvba bs bccbfvat fvqrf.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 17:55
Interesting idea there, Bitt.
Do you have an explanation for why Richard doesn't seem to have aged? He looked the same age when Ben was little as he does now. Or was that just a poor makeup job?
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 17:56
Quote:
Nikki and Paulo were originally supposed to be part of a longer storyarc
Wow, that is surprising.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 18:30
Quote:
Quote:
Nikki and Paulo were originally supposed to be part of a longer storyarc
Wow, that is surprising.
Not really. They'd already pulled the "doomed supplementary castaway" card before with Arnst. I figured they would want to bring more cast members into the mix, considering the number of people who have died. Heck, the only tail section member who's still alive (and not an Other) is Bernard, and even he and Rose were so absent this season I started trying to remember if they'd been killed off or not. Were they even in season three before last week's episode?
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 18:33
Yeah, I've been wondering about Richard's constant appearance. I think it's entirely deliberate - he doesn't age.
-Zeke
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 19:04
I have no explanation, but it seems clearly intentional to me. Current day, Ben and Richard appear to be more-or-less the same age, with Ben probably being older (in reality, the actor playing Ben is 13 years older than the actor playing Richard) and they chose to use a kid for young Ben. There are two theories that readily present themselves. One is that the Richard from the flashback is the father of the current Ben. The other is that Richard doesn't age. I don't really like either of those options, as there's no basis for either one, what with on-island births being problematic and no precedent for lack of aging. I'm kind of inclined to guess that Richard might be a clone. It might make sense that their research into pregnancy might tie in with research into cloning. Also, the fact that Richard would be a more senior member of the group by a long shot, yet is deferential to Ben would indicate to me that it's not the same character. It's also possible that the Richard in the US is not the Richard on the Island, though I don't know what that would imply.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 18/05/2007 19:12
Quote:
They'd already pulled the "doomed supplementary castaway" card before with Arnst.
Arzst was the reason we were shouting "RED. SHIRTS." at Nikki and Paulo. They appeared on the scene in much the same way that he did.
His death was much funnier, though. Theirs was just a cheap attempt at creepy.
Posted by: Cybjorg
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 19/05/2007 04:43
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Actually, they were killed off due to bad fan reaction.
Yeah, but you gotta love the way that they were taken out.
Posted by: sein
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 19/05/2007 09:49
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Theirs was just a cheap attempt at creepy.
Not so cheap for me, at the end of that episode I took a big gasp! I really liked that one, it made enduring Nikki/Paulo through the beginning of the season totally worth it.
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Well, the producers of Lost have gone on record many times to say:
Spoiler:
gur fheivibef ner abg nyernql qrnq, gurl'er abg va chetngbel, rgp
Talking about cheap, I'm so glad for that. That idea would make quite a pathetic end to it all imho. I'm really hoping for something a lot better than that.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 19/05/2007 12:37
Quote:
it made enduring Nikki/Paulo through the beginning of the season totally worth it.
What was your problem with them? Yeah, it seemed a little odd that we had two new speaking Survivor roles, but so what?
Posted by: sein
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 19/05/2007 14:54
Oh, I'm not against the decision to bring in some new characters to the story at all. Some fresh blood wouldn't go amiss in a few of the episodes. What annoyed me about Nikki/Paulo until their last episode was that they seemed so useless. They simply didn't seem to add anything to the story. We didn't know anything about them and they didn't really have a backstory to explain where they came from until the very end. They felt like a couple of extras who came out of nowhere and tagged along.
Having said that, their last episode had some nice insight to the pair and showed their character too. I wish they did that earlier I guess.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 20/05/2007 02:30
Quote:
Quote:
it made enduring Nikki/Paulo through the beginning of the season totally worth it.
What was your problem with them? Yeah, it seemed a little odd that we had two new speaking Survivor roles, but so what?
I didn't have as negative a reaction to them as most, but I thought the way they were brought in wasn't handled very well. Maybe the writers thought the fans would find it funny if two of the survivors suddenly had speaking parts (very sudden - they just start saying "where's Jack?" and bam! - you've got two new characters).
I always thought it would have been cool to start an episode off in flashback mode, but we don't recognize anyone in it. Then, right before the opening title, we see it's two survivors we've never met before.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 29/05/2007 02:05
OK, well my wife has been out of town and I have not been allowed to watch Lost in her absence. We just caught up tonight.
What a crazy finale. Jack is not looking too pretty good.
Spoiler:
Qb lbh guvax gurl ner tbvat gb fgneg fjvgpuvat gb synfu sbejneqf engure guna synfu onpxf?
Nyfb, jura Wnpx fnvq gb trg uvf sngure qbja gurer gb frr jub jnf zber qehax, jnf guvf uvz orvat uvtu naq zrffrq hc, be vf uvf qnq fbzrubj nyvir va gur shgher?
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 29/05/2007 10:24
Great episode. So much for the complaints that they never reveal anything!
Spoiler:
V'ir orra jbaqrevat nobhg n fjvgpu gb synfu-sbejneqf nf jryy (nyyn Gur Avar). Vg frrzf yvxr gurl'ir pbirerq fb znal bs gur punenpgref' onpx fgbevrf gung gurer jbhyqa'g or zhpu zber gb rkcyber gurer, fb frrvat jung gurve yvsr jnf yvxr nsgre gur vfynaq frrzf yvxr n tbbq vqrn.
V nyfb yvxr gur pyhrf gung gur "synfuonpxf" jrer gur shgher. Gur anzr bs gur shareny ubzr gung Wnpx tbrf gb vf na nantenz sbe "synfu sbejneq," naq ur'f hfvat n pryy cubar guebhtubhg gur rcvfbqr gung bayl pnzr bhg guvf lrne.
Fb jub qb lbh guvax vf ba gur obng? Zl thrff jnf Qunezn.
Bu jryy, gurer'f gbaf bs dhrfgvbaf naq jr'er tbvat gb unir gb jnvg nobhg rvtug zbaguf sbe nafjref. Penc.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 29/05/2007 11:15
If they switch to doing flash forwards (ala The Nine), I may stop watching the series.
The finale was OK, but the whole flash forward business was just crap. Previously, the flash backs could be used to explain the character's state of mind and thoughts they were having at the time. I don't like the idea of the island being set in the past. That takes away the concept of change and pretty much sets everything in stone (anything that's revealed in a flash forward anyway).
The whole funeral thing was a cheap stunt and I hope they just completely abandon that forward arc/device next season.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 29/05/2007 11:32
Yikes, man. Spoiler tags!
And I respectfully disagree
*edit* And I'm surprised you haven't offered your two cents on the season finale of Heroes over in that thread yet *edit*
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Lost on 5/16 - 29/05/2007 12:36
The episode (of Lost) is almost a week old now...
I'll visit the Heroes thread now...
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 17:07
I struggled with whether I should start a new thread, but decided I just wanted to add an opinion on a show.
I just recently started watching Battlestar Gallactica. I hadn't gotten around to it because I'm not the biggest "Sci-Fi" fan. I go more for the supernatural/superhero stuff, I was never into Star Trek, and I like the original Star Wars trilogy, but the whole mythology of it doesn't hold much interest for me. I felt I needed to check BSG out because of all the rave reviews, but I wasn't sure what to expect.
I was very pleased to find that I absolutely LOVE the show. I started with the miniseries, thankfully, and was very pleased that of the approximately three hours, the majority of it was character development. I'm so please that this appears to be the main focus of the show, and not the nitty gritty of how their "universe" works. It's much like Firefly in that way. They don't explain much at all in terms of the technology, aside from the very first few lines of dialog aboard the Gallactica (the technology is old as a defense - that's all). I also enjoy the liberal use of the word "frak" (frac? frack?), alla Firefly (though surprisingly the cursing in Chinese seems more effective). But it's the characters that I love about this show, and how potentially-cliched plot elements don't turn out how you'd expect them to.
I'm not very far in, but I've seen the miniseries and the first seven episodes. So far there are two things I don't like:
1) Lee Adama - maybe he gets better, and I think he's well written, but miss-cast. The writing portrays him as intelligent and occasionally wise, and in the prison-break he certainly kicked some ass, but I don't think he delivers the lines well. For example, when he first appeared, I thought he was some spoiled brat, and I really don't think that was the intention. I don't know, maybe the problem is that I had a lower voice than he does when I was 13, so it's hard to take him seriously when he says "Good hunting" like a 10 year old
My apologies to any big Lee Adama fans out there. I've been going back and forth on this one, but I'm just not sure I buy the actor in that part.
2) The beginning of each show - I don't know what the episodes were like when they first aired, but the DVD episodes are
annoying. They start off with the same wrap-up of the back-story (alla The 4400), then show you some previous scenes (which, in any show, gives obvious clues as to what's being touched on in that episode). After that you get some opening scenes, followed by the opening credits.
THEN for some unknown reason they show you clips of exactly what's going to happen in that episode! What the hell is that??
These are only minor problems, given how fantastic this show is. I can't wait to see the rest. And as much as I'm enjoying it, I'm happy that it'll be ending soon. I'd really like to see a show of this quality wrap up its story in a smart way, and not drag it on two seasons too long.
Posted by: andy
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 17:21
Quote:
I just recently started watching Battlestar Gallactica.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Kve1oGPjf8
Posted by: drakino
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 17:49
Quote:
2) The beginning of each show - I don't know what the episodes were like when they first aired, but the DVD episodes are annoying. They start off with the same wrap-up of the back-story (alla The 4400), then show you some previous scenes (which, in any show, gives obvious clues as to what's being touched on in that episode). After that you get some opening scenes, followed by the opening credits. THEN for some unknown reason they show you clips of exactly what's going to happen in that episode! What the hell is that??
The intro with the look back at previous episodes helps more as you get farther along, as they have gone back and touched on some old stuff here and there. So while most of it is likely what happened in the previous episode, as you get into the second season and beyond it will be more useful to you even watching on DVD.
The clips of what happens in the current episode has always annoyed me though, and I tend to just look away when it happens. When I was watching the last season at the Alamo Drafthouse, it made for the perfect time to pay more attention to my food then the screen.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 18:13
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Lee Adama - maybe he gets better, and I think he's well written, but miss-cast
IMO, he gets better, but he's never as good as he ought to be, especially considering a large portion of his dramatic scenes are against Edward James Olmos. It's not as signficant when he's working against other actors on the show, depending on the actor.
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The beginning of each show
I usually fast-forward through that stuff, which is easier with a TiVo than on the DVDs, I'm sure. There's some show I watch that does this -- it might be BSG -- and sometimes in the "previously on" segments, they will show stuff that has never happened. That cracks me up. I wonder if they're scenes that were cut.
One thing that occurred to me that was less obvious than it should have been is to, rather than trying to fast-forward through a short period like that, just mute it. BSG is talking-heads enough that you can't really tell what's going on just by seeing characters converse.
As a prophylactic, don't expect it to be as good as it is for the first season throughout the entire series. There will always be off episodes in any show, no matter how good, but BSG's writing quality takes a significant dive at some point. I'm not going to tell you when, and it's not like it's terrible (again, except for a few isolated episodes here and there), but don't let yourself get set up to be as disappointed as I was when it happens.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 18:57
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considering a large portion of his dramatic scenes are against Edward James Olmos
That certainly could be it. That's a pretty unfair match-up.
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As a prophylactic, don't expect it to be as good as it is for the first season throughout the entire series.
That's too bad. It certainly starts out strong. Hopefully they'll return to form in the fourth season. Lots of shows seem to be stumbling these days, but I think Lost showed that it can always be turned around. Hopefully Olmos and McDonnell will be enough to carry me through the rough patches.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: TV sucks - 26/06/2007 18:58
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Quote:
I just recently started watching Battlestar Gallactica.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Kve1oGPjf8
Brilliant. Just brilliant. I don't know why, but I cracked up the most at the "A-shaped halls" part.