Original art assets used in XML interface?
Posted by: tfabris
Original art assets used in XML interface? - 15/06/2003 23:37
I'm writing another application for the empeg that makes use of pictures of the remote control and of the empeg face. For the moment, I've lifted the art from CharcoalGray99's XML interface for this purpose. I would like to continue using this art because it looks really good, but I want to make sure I obtain the permission of the original creators before making this app public.
The image of the empeg is the one that's scaled so that the screen matches up with a 128x32 VFD screen capture. I believe it was originally lifted off of the Rio web site where animated GIF examples of the empeg visuals were being shown.
I don't know for sure where the image of the remote came from. I know it is also used in another HTML/Javascript remote control implementation similar to CharcoalGray99's web interface, but I don't know which is the chicken and which the egg, so to speak.
So who were the original creators of these images?
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 23/06/2003 21:35
*BUMP*
Nobody?
I've realized that the face image is a resized version of the original pre-molding CAD renders when they were developing the Mk2 fascia. But I don't know where the Rio Remote image came from.
I'm really close to release on this software... And no one's even expressed a curiosity about it.
Posted by: msaeger
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 23/06/2003 21:37
I figured you wouldn't tell us what it is until it's done anyway
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 23/06/2003 21:40
Well, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. Either that or let you beta test it.
Posted by: Roger
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 01:40
then I'd have to kill you. Either that or let you beta test it.
Depending on the quality of the software, these two might turn out to be equivalent
.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 10:30
Depending on the quality of the software, these two might turn out to be equivalent.
Aw, hell, I'll just let you guys
be the judge of that.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 10:39
Tony,
Bravo! This is fantastic! Exactly what I needed!
BTW, I'm running under XP and works like a champ.
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 10:47
Thanks, glad you like it!
Looking at the program, it seems like such a simple thing. But you wouldn't believe what a pain it was to code. Mostly because of the UI design choices I made. For instance, getting the rounded corners on the windows is like pulling teeth. I could have drawn region windows specifying point-to-point coordinates, but that would have been a pain. I finally found some example code on the 'net which created a region window from the form's bitmap and used that. (Note how you can see daylight through the gap by the handle hinges; that was my primary goal.
)
And then there was trying to deal with all of the permutations of long and short and double clicks, and drags, in such a way that it "felt right" to use. Sometimes it's hard to keep all of the event chains straight in your head.
I've just discovered another bug in the program I'll have to fix eventually... but I'll leave it up to you guys to find it.
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 10:58
Cool. Works great here. One feature request and one bug report.
Is it possible to make it yield between refreshes though? It uses 100% CPU whenever I run it and on my laptop all of the fans suddenly kick in.
It's actually just a cosmetic bug but sometimes when I'm dragging the empeg or remote around the image jitters.
Posted by: robricc
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:00
I've just discovered another bug in the program I'll have to fix eventually... but I'll leave it up to you guys to find it.
Hitting the buttons without your empeg present on the network crashes 'Face'
Do I win?
EDIT: Seems to crash without hitting buttons after a while of being open without an empeg to talk to. I wish I could check it out. It looks pretty dope.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:02
Another feature request: Can you add an option for the remote to be "always on top"?
Can you add that feature to my girlfriend as well???
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:03
Is it possible to make it yield between refreshes though? It uses 100% CPU whenever I run it and on my laptop all of the fans suddenly kick in.
It does yield between refreshes. This is talked about in the readme file. Check what it has to say there, first.
sometimes when I'm dragging the empeg or remote around the image jitters.
Yeah, I can't really do anything about that, it's the video driver. The same thing would happen on other programs if you activated the "show window contents while dragging" feature of Windows.
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:03
Could be annoying if you're trying to use the computer or watching TV though...
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:05
Hitting the buttons without your empeg present on the network crashes 'Face'
Odd, it doesn't do that on my systems. I specifically tested that feature. Does it give you a specific error message when you do that?
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:07
Doesn't crash here without any empeg.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:07
Another feature request: Can you add an option for the remote to be "always on top"?
I had considered this, but I thought it would get really annoying after a while, since the window is so large.
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:11
I actually read the README just before you replied to me. I'll read it first next time
Yeah. It jitters quite a lot even though I'm not moving the mouse. As I said, it's just a cosmetic thing anyway.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:13
So large? On my screen, the remote is pretty small...
I'm at 1280 x 1024... plus, at home, I use dual monitors and want to put it in the upper right corner of my "utilities" display always...
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:20
It jitters quite a lot even though I'm not moving the mouse.
I thought you meant that it sometimes left graphics blitter behind when you drag it across another window.
It shouldn't jitter at at all when you hold the mouse still, it doesn't do that on any of my systems. The only way that should happen is if the mouse itself is sending jittery data to the application (lots of one-pixel mousemove commands even when you're not moving the mouse).
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:22
plus, at home, I use dual monitors and want to put it in the upper right corner of my "utilities" display always...
I don't have dual monitors to test against, I'm curious to see if it correctly remembers its screen position (after exiting and restarting) on a second monitor. I'm guessing it won't. I'd be curious how to code for that instance, since I don't have a way of testing it.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:24
I'll test it when I get home tonight. So how tough is it to add that "always on top" feature?
- Jon
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:25
The cursor is not moving at all and it doesn't happen in anything else. It's not important anyway and it's probably something to do with VB itself.
Posted by: loren
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:27
I'm sure there's not much that can be done about it, but even with the refresh at 1000ms, it's taking up 97-100% CPU time on a dual 2.4 GHZ Xeon machine. =o
oh, and that is pimp!! very clean Tony. Nice work.
Posted by: robricc
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:30
I swear it crashed twice. Face was getting 'Not Responding' but ImageGrabber would continue to run after killing 'Face".
No error message.
I will try and break it again. I'm running XP Pro by the way.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:44
I'm sure there's not much that can be done about it, but even with the refresh at 1000ms, it's taking up 97-100% CPU time on a dual 2.4 GHZ Xeon machine.
Right, all it's doing is sitting in a loop with a bunch of VB "doEvents" commands waiting for the other app to tell it what to do.
Y'all are putting too much stock in what the Task Manager is telling you. The only reason it's saying it's consuming 100 percent CPU is because it's the only app that's doing anything. As soon as you do something else on the PC, it'll automatically drop to lower than whatever the other app is doing. As soon as that other app goes idle, it'll start back into its loop again.
I agree, I know it can be coded more efficiently. It's on my to do list.
oh, and that is pimp!! very clean Tony. Nice work.
Thanks!
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:46
The cursor is not moving at all and it doesn't happen in anything else.
That's odd. It shouldn't do that. I haven't seen that happen on any of my systems. Is it only when you're holding down the mouse button on the window?
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:49
So how tough is it to add that "always on top" feature?
Dunno, I'd have to look at her code first.
Oh, you mean in my app. Not tough. I just have to decide how to incorporate it into the UI. Should it be on the menu or in the dialog box?
Posted by: tman
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 11:58
Yeah. Like if you were trying to drag the window but not actually moving it. It only happens sometimes though.
- Trevor
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 12:06
Hey! Very cool. Thanks!
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 12:13
Any way to make it skin-able? Allow a user to supply theire own gif or bmp of the fascia/handle? I'm asking because I've got 303's polished face but it'd be fun to see what folks come up with. I changed Charcoalgray's interface to match my player below.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 12:26
Any way to make it skin-able? Allow a user to supply theire own gif or bmp of the fascia/handle?
Interesting idea. The tough part would be getting the knob/buttons to line up right with the hit-points I've coded into the form. I'd have to make an easy way to edit that.
Hm.
Might help with a bit of redesign work I wanted to do anyway related to that.
Hm.
I'll think about it.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 16:50
My suggestion is that the "always on top" be within the right click menu.
It could be:
Show remote
Always on top
Show face
Always on top
Configure
The "Always on top" is another selectable menu item for each component...
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 17:17
Hmmm. Ideally, I'd like to have the menu be sensitive to which window you clicked on and offer just the one "always on top" for just that window. I'll look into doing it that way.
Posted by: eliceo
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 17:45
either way sounds cool, by the way youve made my remote useless at work. Nice work on the program its pretty cool.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 17:47
Thanks!
Posted by: ricin
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 18:29
XML is good for that kind of thing.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 18:37
Either way is great with me...
By the way, with dual tuners, if the face or the remote is on the second monitor when I close the app, the program puts them back at default location when starting the next time... Not ideal, but at least it doesn't crash.
- Jon
Posted by: TheAmigo
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 19:27
Just kinda thinking aloud here...
I think the main difference is that with multi-monitor support, some of the monitors can have negative coords. Maybe there's some logic in the built-in functions that try to make sure a window isn't openning off-screen (e.g. no negative coords) that should be re-writen for multi-monitor support.
Although, if that's the case, then it would seem to be an issue of updating the toolkit, not something that you specifically do in an application.
Posted by: jamville
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 21:38
Sweet!
Posted by: Roger
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 24/06/2003 23:58
hit-points I've coded into the form
The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour.
Windows Media Player 9 uses this technique.
Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window
?
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 25/06/2003 03:22
The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour.
Interesting idea. I'll have to see if that works in VB. Sounds like it would work.
Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window ?
I don't understand the question. Are you saying that the Region Window (non-rectangular window) feature isn't working when the window loses focus? I'm not getting that. The windows have rounded corners regardless of whether or not they are the active window on all the systems I tested on.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 25/06/2003 03:29
I think the main difference is that with multi-monitor support, some of the monitors can have negative coords.
I was wondering how the OS reported the second monitor position to the application. I've never coded for multiple monitors, so I didn't know.
Maybe there's some logic in the built-in functions that try to make sure a window isn't openning off-screen (e.g. no negative coords) that should be re-writen for multi-monitor support.
No, it's just that I deliberately reset the saved window position if it comes up as being off the screen (i.e, negative number or greater than the screen width or height). This is for people who change their desktop resolution. If they exit the program at a high resolution while the window is off to the side, then start it again at a lower resolution, then the window will be off screen and they would have no way to get it back on the screen.
Perhaps I just need to make that part of it optional. Add a checkbox to the config screen that disables this window-resetting code. Then maybe it would just work for those with multiple monitors.
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 25/06/2003 06:28
Oh, and can you make it alpha-transparent when it's not the active window ?
I don't understand the question.
I think he was talking about having it support alpha transparency such that when it's the active window, it's opaque, but when it's not (not focused) it's transparent (at least partially, 100% transparency isn't all that useful.)
Trillian supports this, if you wanna take a look at how it works.
Posted by: Roger
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 25/06/2003 06:40
when it's the active window, it's opaque, but when it's not (not focused) it's transparent
Yeah. What he said:
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 25/06/2003 10:04
Ah, gotcha.
Yeah, when I was digging around looking for some good code to use for the Region Window stuff, I saw examples of how to do the alpha transparency thing.
I didn't do it, though, because it only works easily on XP with the Dot Net development kit, and only on 2000 with some ugly hacking, and not at all on 95/98/NT.
However, if I can find an easy way to drop it in so that I don't have to code a lot of if/then special cases to compensate for the OS's that don't support it, then that might make a good way of indicating when the window isn't focused. I was thinking of taking the existing bitmap and just dimming it, but the transparency would work, too.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 26/06/2003 23:58
The traditional way to do this is to have another bitmap, the same shape as the one the user sees, but with different coloured regions on it. When the user clicks, you hit test the hidden bitmap and pick up the colour.
I just did this, and it works a treat. Thanks, Roger!
I now have a skinnable interface that can be any shape with the buttons anywhere you like.
Creating the button-trigger bitmap is tricky because I'm using one of the RGB values as the index into the case statement for the IR commands to send. For instance, the top button on the face is Button 1. So you have to paint a bitmap with that button painted the RGB value of (255, 0, 1). The center-knob-press is Button 7, so you have to paint it (255,0,7).
It sounds complicated, but it's really not at all. I'll include example bitmaps.
I'll try the always-on-top and transparency features, and do some more bug fixes before another release. Dunno if it's going to be before the Amersfoort trip or not.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 27/06/2003 00:22
You can also stretch the VFD to any size you like and position it anywhere on the Window...
Took about 20 seconds to make a working "Double Size" skin.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 27/06/2003 16:10
Okay, skins for this are fun. That was a great idea. I've thrown together a few sloppy skins, and even sloppy ones are cool.
I really want to release the skinnable version, but I'm having a bug with it. The trick with testing for a button hit via a bitmap isn't working from VB when the system's color depth is anything less than 24 bit color. As soon as I set the system down to 16 bit color or lower, the "point" command that lets me sample a pixel from a bitmap stops returning valid values. I'll mess with it some more and see if I can fix it. In the meantime, would folks be interested in a skinnable version that required you to run it in 24-bit color?
Posted by: eliceo
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 27/06/2003 16:20
even a buggy version sounds cool, did you implement always on top yet? Ive really been using your program a lot at work.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 27/06/2003 16:24
I don't have Always on Top yet, nor do I have the transparency yet. I wanted to get skins working correctly first. I'll see if I can cobble together a release with instructions on how to make the skins.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 27/06/2003 22:02
As a guess (I'm not a Windows programmer) try using more widely-spaced intervals for your button codes. (xx,xx,xx) is inherently 24-bit (3 8-bit sequences), and if you're changing one of them by one bit, that going to be masked in the 24-bit-to-16-bit interpolation.
Try using (255,255,127) and (255,127,255) and (127,255,255) and (127,255,127) and (127,127,127) and (0,127,255), etc. You'll have to have a LUT, but that's hardly a large penalty.
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 00:21
Oh hell yeah. Please post it.
Posted by: maurij
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 03:49
how hard would it be to use/create an interface like this to stream music?
using empeg at home i use the display server to stream to other rooms.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 06:25
try using more widely-spaced intervals for your button codes
First thing I thought of. No, it's not that. All calls to the "point" command result in the same return value no matter what the color at that point is. Even if the difference between the two is 000000 and FFFFFF. I'm going to investigate it more.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 06:29
how hard would it be to use/create an interface like this to stream music?
Hmmm. Not too difficult. I was planning on creating a third window, similar to the "now playing" window in Charcoalgray99's XML interface. It could theoretically be used to download and stream the current FID to WinAmp.
However, using the controls on the EmpegFace application to control the stream wouldn't work. You'd have to use the controls in WinAmp to control the stream instead.
Posted by: maurij
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 08:34
hmmm looks like we need an empeg winamp skin then. how hard are those? sounds like a decent project to try my hand at coding
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 09:35
how hard are those?
Harder than my skins.
sounds like a decent project to try my hand at coding
It's not coding so much as painting. Try your hand at one of my skins, first, before tackling a WinAmp skin:
Version 1.1 of EmpegFace
here.
Remember, that this version has the 24-bit color limitation.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 09:42
I also had to sub-zip the skins, so you have to unzip the skins yourself. Sorry about that. Does anyone know which version of WinZip doesn't have the limitation of not allowing the same name twice in a zip file?
I'm headed out to do yard work now. I expect to see five new skins when I get back!
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 11:39
Thanks for the skin feature! Running my desktop at 1600x1200 makes the default very small, so doublesize rules here. Yet another wish. How about custom screen colors? That way we can imitate our Darkstorm lenses.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 13:26
Custom screen colors is do-able, but I'm probably going to concentrate on the existing wish list before working on that one.
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 16:49
Its abit rough but here's one. I took creative license with a Blauplunkt MD facsia.
Can you add this to the wish list...allow remote buttons and face buttons on the same map? Here why....
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 17:09
Can you add this to the wish list...allow remote buttons and face buttons on the same map? Here why....
Hmmmmmm, I'll have to think about how to do that without breaking the current spec.
Aw, who knows, maybe I'll have to break the current spec anyway just to get the thing working on low-color systems.
I like how you relabeld the buttons.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 28/06/2003 23:55
Here's another skin I did today. Wanted my lit buttons on there.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 13:12
Does anyone know which version of WinZip doesn't have the limitation of not allowing the same name twice in a zip file?
I don't think that's possible. You couldn't create a valid header like that. You
can create a zip file that has subdirectories, though.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 14:57
You can create a zip file that has subdirectories, though.
Right, I tried that. It complained because there were subdirectories with same-named files. In other words, since subdirectory "a" had "face.bmp" and subdirectory "b" also had "face.bmp", it refused to create the zip file.
Posted by: TheAmigo
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 15:30
WinZip 9.0 beta handles that just fine...
Here's a sample.
What version do you have that complains about it? I don't think I've ever tried that before, but wow, what a limitation!
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 15:35
Oh. Well, then, it's a piece of crap.
Actually, there's an option in there somewhere to avoid subdirectories or not. Make sure that's checked the right way.
Otherwise, try using another zip program.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 15:39
Ah, never mind. I figured it out. My current Winzip handles it just fine, turns out that it was just the way I chose to create the file.
What I did (which didn't work) was to use the CTRL key in my development directory to multiple-select some of the skin subfolders and the EXEs and the readme. (Had to do this so it didn't pick up all the source code files at the same time.) That's what gave me the duplicate file name error.
If, instead, I create a folder called "EmpegFace", copy all the files and subdirectories into it that I want, go to that folder's parent, right click on the EmpegFace folder and select "Create EmpegFace.zip" from the right-click menu, then it all works perfectly.
I could swear I knew this at some point in my lifetime, I just got somehow stupider between then and now.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 15:45
By the way, with dual monitors, if the face or the remote is on the second monitor when I close the app, the program puts them back at default location when starting the next time... Not ideal, but at least it doesn't crash.
Jon, could you please try 1.1 and activate the "Dual Monitor Support" feature? I'm curious if it correctly remembers its window positions with your dual display setup.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 15:48
Honestly, I haven't used WinZip in ages. I don't think that that sort of program should cost money, and I didn't want to ``steal'' it from NicoMak, so I found an alternative and I haven't looked back. I use an old version of UltimateZip on my home PC before it became adware (though non-invasive, supposedly). On my friend's computer, I think I installed ZipCentral.
Tangentially, have you looked at
NoNags? Given that when I'm looking for some little utility I don't want to pay for it, nor do I want adware or spyware, NoNags does a really good job of showing only absolutely free stuff. Makes it that much easier to filter through the chaff when it's already been done for you.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 16:27
Yep. Works like a charm. Not too crazy about the way the face and remote move around the screen though...
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 18:03
Thanks for the link to NoNags, bitt.
Jon, what do you mean "the way they move around the screen"? You should just drag them and they should be pretty smooth. Sometimes if I'm on a machine with a really slow video card, they leave trails on other applications which disappear as soon as you release the mouse button. Are they doing something strange on your system?
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 18:08
Something is weird in the way it moves around my screen now. When I drag the face or remote, one side kinda collapses and then when I move it far enough, the whole image re-draws in the new location...
It's funky and v1.0 didn't do this for me...
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 18:10
Ah, OK. Gotcha. Kind of like reverse-blitter. I know the effect you mean.
That only happens on one of my skins, the really weird one. I think its edges are too complicated for the Microsoft RegionWindow API's. You wouldn't happen to be using that skin would you?
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 21:43
It happens on all of the skins...
Am I the only one this is happening for? Should I delete the .ini or something?
- Jon
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 22:00
I don't see it on mine except for the puddle skin.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 29/06/2003 23:44
It happens on all of the skins...
Interesting. Well, let's see...
The code that creates the region windows, and the code that controls the window moving, has not changed between 1.0 and 1.1. When I added the skin support, I merely allowed the bitmaps to load dynamically instead of having them built into the form. So your report that it didn't happen in 1.0 puzzles me.
Hm. Try this: In the Configuration dialog box, under Skin, delete it so that it's blank. Exit and restart the program. Does it have the same problem? What this will do is force it to fail when it attempts to open a skin file, and it will then fall back to the bitmaps built into the forms.
In the meantime, let's hear what the system's CPU, RAM, and video card specs are. And did you change any video settings on the system around the time you installed 1.1?
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/06/2003 07:47
Tried it, but the same thing happens.
I tried re-installing 1.0 into a different directory. When I run that, dragging the items works perfectly... So it is something in the 1.1 code that is causing this weird behavior...
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/06/2003 09:28
Very odd!
Well, I'm leaving on the Europe trip here shortly, so I won't be able to pound on this bug for a while. Remind me when I get back.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/06/2003 09:32
No problem. Have fun in Europe!
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/06/2003 10:28
I can now reproduce this on one of my boxes now, so when I get time to work on it, I've got a way to find the problem.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 02/07/2003 13:16
All versions of zip I've ever used, Win or otherwise, allowed for files with same name if they are in differend directories (and if you choose to preserve directory names, of course).
Great work!
Edit: I also see weird moving behaviour.
Edit2: Have great time in NL!
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 11/07/2003 13:37
Bump!
Now that you are back Tony... :-)
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 11/07/2003 13:59
Yeah yeah yeah....
I've actually got a bunch of stuff on my plate so I likey won't be working on this app until next week sometime. But thanks for the reminder.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 18/07/2003 16:00
le-bump?
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 19/07/2003 14:29
Heh. I'll see what I can do next week. This week things got complicated. This weekend is (hopefully) set up my vacation pictures at my new website and get the site design finalized.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/07/2003 17:20
Okay, I've done the following so far:
'- Bugfix: Dragging the windows around the screen no longer
' has a strange repaint problem on some systems
'- Better graphic for remote on Doublesize skin.
'- Bugfix: Double-click-and-hold behavior no longer behaves strangely.
'- Bugfix: When -minimized is on the command line or when
' Start Minimized is in the configuration, changing the skin no longer
' causes the program to re-minimize.
'- Side Effect: When the application is minimized, changing the skin
' makes it un-minimize. This is good, it lets you see the skin you changed to.
'- Fix Deferred: Switching to an incorrect skin or "blank" might (depending on what
' the hard disk looks like at the time) leave the current skin as-is instead of
' reloading the default skin. Not easy to fix... and rather a minor issue
' anyway. I could theoretically put up an error box if you get the skin
' wrong, but I hate modal error boxes. I'd rather just have the lack-of-a-skin-change
' be your clue that you got it wrong. A commercial product would have an error box
' or a CommonDialog for selecting a skin, but I'm not ready to invest that kind of
' time in this yet.
Currently am working on:
'Awaiting Bugfixes:
'- FIX: Less-than-hicolor screens, RGB hit tests don't work?
'Awaiting Feature Additions:
'- Requested feature: Always on top
'- Requested feature: Alpha transparency for non focused window
I ran into a thorny issue with the hicolor screens. What's wrong is that when VB loads up a bitmap (in this case the bitmap with the button hit tests) is downconverted to whatever bitdepth the current screen is. And there's not enough resolution in a 8, 15, or 16-bit-per-pixel screen for one easy color elemnt to represent different buttons. And even if I chose different levels for each color element as suggested elsewhere in this thread, then the actual values are going to be dependent on the video driver. Here's an example:
24 bit mode, difference in each value=10
0A 00 FF
14 00 FF
1E 00 FF
28 00 FF
16 bit mode, difference in each value=10
08 00 FF
10 00 FF
18 00 FF
29 00 FF
Note how the 16 bit video driver has random values that are not quite what I saved in the 24 bit file. And I can't, for example, do "If greater than 15 then it's the same as 20" because the value for 30 comes out to be 24 thanks to the screwy way the video driver has to average 8 bits down to 6 bits. And I don't even have a 15-bit mode in my video driver to test against for that. And also I can't predict exactly what a different video driver will do, so getting device-caps on the video card won't necessarily help.
So my options are:
-Throw out the easy way of skinning completely and go back to some kind of table-based system. Or keep the bitmap method and do 0/128/255 for each RGB value but I don't think that yields enough values for the remote's 24 buttons.
-Write code to read into the windows BMP format and get the stored pixels of the button-hit-test bitmap directly instead of loading it into an image and using GetPixel like I'm doing now.
-Just forget supporting lower-than-24-bit color altogether.
Who votes for that last one?
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/07/2003 19:43
Excellent! Is this just a note to let us know your status, or is this new version available somewhere???
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/07/2003 20:19
Just a note to let you know status. I was trying to fix all of the bugs before going on to the requested features (always on top and translucency). That's what you guys have been waiting for, those features, right?
Anyway, I'm gone this weekend so it's unlikely I'll get much further than what's posted above before next week sometime.
Posted by: Mach
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/07/2003 20:31
I'd vote for dropping support for lower than 24 bit.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 30/07/2003 20:41
I'd vote for dropping support for lower than 24 bit.
Cool.
Really, the only thing holding me back is the knowledge that sometimes people will deliberately run their desktop in 16-bit to save memory, or (on older video cards or on cheap motherboard-embedded video chips) to achieve higher resolutions than are available in the 24-bit mode.
Then again, the target market for this applet is pretty small, so I could be wasting my time by trying to code in support for something no one will ever use.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 13:07
So the poll seems to support my theory: Supporting low color depths isn't a big deal, everyone is running 24 bit these days.
I'm concerned who the "one" guy is that needs 16-bit support, though. Want to come forward?
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 13:45
That would be me. I run an older Matrox G400Max board at the office in a dual head setup. The secondary display screen has to be 16 bit for me to set it at anything above 800x600 60 Hz. With 16 bit I do 1152x864 75Hz.
-Zeke
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 15:51
In a dual-head setup, can you run different bit depths on each screen, or do both screens have to be the same bit depth?
Posted by: msaeger
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 19:26
It depends on the video card(s) used. With my dual head asus 5200 I can.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 20:13
Well, I personally am not running your app (yet), but most of my machines here use 16-bit colour depth, simply because it's much faster and more memory efficient than 24-bit. The only exception is my photo-editing box, which by necessity has to use 24-bit colour.
Cheers
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 31/07/2003 20:48
Mark runs windows boxes? *boggle*
Posted by: mlord
Re: Original art assets used in XML interface? - 01/08/2003 06:56
Hey, who said anything about
Windows boxes?
But yes, in actual fact, several of my machines are configured with Win98 inside VMWare on top of Linux, 16-bit colour depth. And one machine can actually boot Win98 natively -- needed for proper colour management with Photoshop, since VMWare does not yet appear to allow such (colour management).
Cheers