Re-naming MP2's

Each week, I now load MP2's (DAB Radio Broadcasts), those I haven't listened to in a week, I want to download and convert either to CD's or to MP3's.

Empeg seems to change the title to MP3, but leave the file as an MP2. Neither my CD writer or my Rio MP3 player, will recognise the files.

Hmmm, the player is supposed to be able to play MP2 files directly according to this FAQ entry.

However, keep in mind that "MP2" is just a file extension, it's just three arbitrary letters. Perhaps there's more than one file format which uses that extension, and the car player only plays one of those formats.

For instance, maybe the car player likes to play "mpeg1-layer-2" files, and what you've got is an "mpeg2" file. Or something like that.

Can any of the empeg guys chime in on exactly what kind of MP2 file the player is supposed to play?

In any case, your temporary workaround will need to be transcoding the file to MP3 as suggested in the FAQ entry linked above.

If I understand the OP correctly, he's talking about grabbing the MP2 tracks back from the player. emplode names them ".mp3", because it really doesn't care about the difference.

Then, the PC application refuses to play it, because it's not an MP3 file.

Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and your understanding is the right one.

he's talking about grabbing the MP2 tracks back from the player.

Ah, yes. I was just confirming this with Doug on ICQ, who's got some Mpeg1-Layer2 files on his player.

Emplode and the player's "info" screen seem to think the files are "MP3" files, and as you said, when you download from the player using Emplode, it incorrectly names them with the MP3 extension.

So should those be considered bugs?:

1) Player identifies an Mpeg1-Layer2 file as "codec=MP3"
2) Emplode names an Mpeg1-Layer2 file as ".MP3" instead of ".MP2" when downloading

That depends. The file extension comes directly from the "codec=" line. This is not a bug.

The ARM MP3 decoder is perfectly happy decoding MP2 files. The "codec=" line is used to select the decoder. Because it works, technically, this is not a bug, either.

We could make emplode set "codec=mp2", and have it select the same decoder, but that's more of an enhancement than a bug fix, IMNSHO.

You could put it in the bug list as such, but we're busy again, and I don't know when we'll get round to looking at 2.0 seriously again.

Personally, the only thing I'm waiting for is working USB on XP, then (IMO) we can call it 2.0-final. I know that Lemmy (among others) are waiting on working RDS, as well, though.

he's talking about grabbing the MP2 tracks back from the player

Your assessment is entirely correct.

I think, in truth, how many Empeg owners are ageing nutters who would want to do what I want to do? - listen to 12 and a half hours of DAB radio broadcasts each week, when they've got a storehouse of great playlists loaded up.

That being the case, I don't think it's really worth your spending time on, unless it's easy to sort at some point, I just thought that I had better report it - the Empeg is fabulous enough and I am the first "amongst others", behind Lemmy, who would prefer the RDS upgrade. I can get round it by just leaving the files on the PC, they'll never take up more than 750 mbs. and, to erase a set of files from Empeg and PC, instead of just the one will probably take about a nanosecond longer, each week.

As always, thanks a million for spending the time to think about it.

Ah, cool, sorry I misunderstood your original question. Glad you got the answer you were looking for.

Can't you just rename the files back to .mp2 after you download them from the empeg?

I tried that, before I posted, it won't accept them on Audiotools, my preferred ripping/writing/processing package, or on my Rio MP3 player.

The MP2 file at 128, downloaded from the DAB broadcast, sounds much better to me on my Empeg , hence why I am trying to retain its integrity: If I convert it to MP3, it comes out at 96, and sounds distinctly jingly jangly. I am contemplating investing in the satellite hardware/software, so that I can transfer MP2's at 192 bkps direct to Empeg, hence my pre-occupation with the subject..

..but, as I said, I can get round it, but thanks for your input...and, as I also said, I'm probably the only Empeg owner trying to do this!

Are you saying that nothing (device or software) you have will play the MP2s except the empeg, either before you upload it to the empeg or after you download it back?

Or are you saying that it's playable on your computer before you upload it, but after you download it back, it's no longer playable? If that's the case, try uploading one and then redownloading it, keeping both. Then, at a command prompt, run ``fc /b before.mp2 after.mp3'' (replacing those filenames, obviously) and see what it has to say.

Or are you saying that it's playable on your computer before you upload

Before I upload, it plays fine on my computer and edits in DirectCut, it's after that nothing will play it.

...anyway, it's going to be a big weekend in the Boxer household, I've decided definitely to move from DAB to satellite for my radio and am hoping the quality is noticeable between a bit rate of 128 and 192, also the DAB scheduling software is unstable.

A side product of this is that the software I'll be using can go straight to MP3, which is something I didn't know until I brought it yesterday evening.

So it maybe that I never have to carry out the procedure that you suggest.

You may have read my proud boast elsewhere that I'm the only Empeg owner who had to buy a computer to work the Empeg. What you can confidently do in 20 secs. can easily take a weekend for me! The Boxers get walked 20 times, I smoke too much, and eventually I have to co-opt a guy from the pub who knows about these things!

However, thanks, as I've said before, for taking the trouble to puzzle out my little problem, which is the great thing about this BBS.

Before I upload, it plays fine on my computer and edits in DirectCut, it's after that nothing will play it.

Do you really mean nothing ? Will WinAmp play them after they have been downloaded ?

I too have DAB (a Psion Wavewinder) and this problem does not happen with any of the software I use. I can upload the MP2 file that comes from WinDAB to my empeg, then download it with emplode and every bit of software I have tried plays it back fine.

Every MP3/MP2 software player I have ever used ignores the file extension and looks in the file itself to work out how to play it, so the fact that the file has an MP3 extension after downloading isn't a problem.

I have compared the file after download with the original, they are exactly the same, every byte.

A side product of this is that the software I'll be using can go straight to MP3, which is something I didn't know until I brought it yesterday evening.

It won't be going straight to MP3 at all. The audio bit stream on UK satellite is MP2, so if your software is outputing MP3 is must be decoding the MP2 and reencoding as MP3, so you will lose quality.

P.S. What DAB receiver do you have, do you have one of the PCI cards ?

It won't be going straight to MP3 at all

Substitute "goes" to "converts", you're right-that's what I meant. But since your posting I've downloaded an MP2 from Empeg, put it on DirectCut and it plays fine. I've not tried it on Winamp, but will do so at the weekend.


I figured that converting satellite at 192 to Wav* and back to MP3, would still come out better than the DAB 128 broadcast, which converts to 96 as an MP3.
I have two Wavefinders, both using Dabbar, and find that nothing has improved the operation as much as a decent outside aerial pointed, by map reference, at the required transmitter.

But still, I come back from time to time, to find an empty file. Enough so that I do a paranoid tape or SkyPlus back-up of the programmes I like, so that I don't miss them-hence why I thought I might use Sky+ as the main source, instead of the back-up.

*As I understand it, the digital output of the Sky+ has already converted the signal to a Wav, so I will be converting it back to an MP3 at whatever rate I think is the optimum. I needed the digital I/O anyway, so if it doesn't work, I haven't lost a lot.

I would be interested in your(very low-tech) opinion, as to whether what I'm doing is going to work.

Simultaneously with this thread, Audiotools have analyzed one of the files and sent me a patch to solve the problem - I have to say: Great Software, nice guy.

I figured that converting satellite at 192 to Wav* and back to MP3, would still come out better than the DAB 128 broadcast, which converts to 96 as an MP3

Certainly taking the decoded output of a 192k MP2 stream and encoding it as a decent quality MP3 will sound better that the native 128k DAB broadcast. I don't know what you mean by "which converts to 96 as an MP3" though. You are restricted on bitrate you use on the conversion to MP3, it would be better to use a higher rate like 160k or more. Converting it to a 96k MP3 will make it sound even nastier than it already is.

As I understand it, the digital output of the Sky+ has already converted the signal to a Wav

Not actually Wav, but I know what you mean

I would be interested in your(very low-tech) opinion, as to whether what I'm doing is going to work.

It should work, assuming you have a digital input on the sound card on your PC. However it isn't going to be as convenient as the combination of DabBar/WinDab and DigiGuide can be, simply because Sky don't transmit program guide data for the radio channels, meaning you have to set all the recordings automatically.

It will sound better than the DAB broadcast, assuming you use a decent bitrate on your MP3 files.

So should those be considered bugs?:

1) Player identifies an Mpeg1-Layer2 file as "codec=MP3"
2) Emplode names an Mpeg1-Layer2 file as ".MP3" instead of ".MP2" when downloading

No. Almost every other bit of MP3 software I've come across (Winamp, Sonique, libmad, Napster, Audiogalaxy, even Lame) uses the ".mp3" extension whatever layer audio is used. Nobody encodes MPEG-1, -2, or -2.5ness into the file extension either. This is the Right Thing.

Peter

Almost every other bit of MP3 software I've come across (Winamp, Sonique, libmad, Napster, Audiogalaxy, even Lame) uses the ".mp3" extension whatever layer audio is used.

I suppose, in fact, a better way of putting that would be to say that all software that understands both layer-2 and layer-3 uses the same filename extension for both. And as, by definition, any layer-3 codec is also a layer-2 codec, that would include any layer-3 capable software -- such as all the ones I listed.

Peter

Okay, if you say so.

Your reply is most helpful

"which converts to 96 as an MP3"

When I used Dabbar to convert the signals to MP3, before Audiotools accepted MP2, the files from 128 broadcasts always came out at 96, so in my technical ignorance, I assumed that was what happened!

I'm using a SkyPlus box, so the scheduler comment you made is not a problem, the broadcasts that I like are at rigid times, week in, week out.

I intend going in once a week and setting the broadcasts on the "copy"facility, downloading them to the computer, converting the whole file to MP3 at a good bitrate, I was thinking 192, and then editing them with DirectCut, before loading them to the Empeg.

Obviously, the downloading and converting are long processes, so I am going to set them going at bedtime, but I generally load a whole week at a time from thursday night and start listening to them on Monday morning, so I have 3 nights to go at. It may also be that the software will not take the whole download in one, but I can split it: Audiotools tell me that one of their customers processed 8 hours in a file and I'm doing 10.5, so I'll see.

Once again, thanks for your interest.

Almost every other bit of MP3 software I've come across (Winamp, Sonique, libmad, Napster, Audiogalaxy, even Lame) uses the ".mp3" extension whatever layer audio is used

I'm happy to say that with the patch the author e-mailed me yesterday, so does Audiotools. That's the level of support I like: Empeg standard.

I probably favour Audiotools because the guy is prepared to put up with a PC dunce like me with endless patience, but I do find it very user friendly.