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#366279 - 21/03/2016 17:13 Apple Event March 2016
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Underway Live now:

http://www.apple.com/apple-events/march-2016/

Likely a lot of product refreshes across the board. Did open with a tribute to Apple's upcoming 40th birthday, a comment about the ongoing encryption debate, and an update on their environmental impact.

iOS 9.3, OS X 10.11.4, and other software upgrades likely out today. Big feature for me being added is iBooks including personal PDF files will now all sync via iCloud. And the f.lux like Night Mode for the iPad.

Rumors have been following a new iPhone in the 4 inch form factor, possible new 9.7 inch iPad with features from the iPad Pro, and expected refreshes of many of the Mac computers.

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#366280 - 21/03/2016 18:37 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
I'm a bit disappointed there were no new Macs. Check out the MacRumors "buyer's guide" -- red almost across the whole board.

My 2011 MacBook Air is on its last legs, but I don't want to replace it until there's something new. Sigh.

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#366282 - 21/03/2016 19:50 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Definitely surprising that no spec bumps at all happened for any Mac. I've not followed Intel's roadmap closely lately, though I was at least expecting some Skylake bumps. The Q1 2016 and TBD lining this chart might be a factor. I'm also thinking Apple wants to jump to Thunderbolt 3 soon too, including a possible retina/5k replacement for the Thunderbolt 1 monitor/docking station.

Some interesting accessories USB and Lightning wise. A new Lightning to USB3 Camera adapter that has both a USB B and USB C lightning port. The use of USB on the iPad side grows a bit, with it officially supporting USB C ethernet adaptors, beyond the already in use USB Microphone or MIDI device. Someone is theorizing the iPad may also accept power charging through that adapter on the USB C port. There's also USB C to Lightning cables that were missing during last years Macbook with USB C launch.

The Apple Watch entry level did drop in price $50, down to prices some stores were already selling it at. The iPad Air 2 remains in the lineup, also down $100.


Edited by drakino (30/03/2016 11:38)
Edit Reason: Mistook the lightning passthrough for usb-c

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#366290 - 21/03/2016 23:03 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: DWallach]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: DWallach
I'm a bit disappointed there were no new Macs...

My 2011 MacBook Air is on its last legs, but I don't want to replace it until there's something new. Sigh.
I also await a new Skylake era MacBook Pro. 15 inch in my case.

My 2013 MacBook Air (maxed out specs) is currently coping with the workload but has minimal CPU headroom.

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#366307 - 22/03/2016 15:45 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Also notable, the new iPad Pro uses USB-C for its charging / data port. This suggests that Apple is well on its way to adopting this elsewhere. Which is to say, if you want a MagSafe charger, then you should buy now. If you don't want MagSafe, then it's clearly on its way out.

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#366309 - 22/03/2016 16:06 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: DWallach
Also notable, the new iPad Pro uses USB-C for its charging / data port.

Tech specs indicate it remains a Lightning port on the 9.7 and 12.9 inch iPad Pros.

Odd differences in the iPad Pro lineup:
  • 9.7 inch is USB 2 with the 12.9 inch model remaining the only USB 3 iOS device
  • 9.7 inch has a better screen due to the true tone color matching
  • 9.7 inch cellular model has an "Embedded Apple SIM"
  • 9.7 inch model has 2GB of RAM, whereas the 12.9 has 4GB


I did see a random rumor float by that the iPad Pro would charge via USB C using the Lightning to USB Camera adaptor. I've yet to see a confirmation of this though.

Personally sticking with my iPad Air 2 for now. It's approaching 2 years old and still remains a fantastic device. It's my belief the "slowdown" in iPad sales is due to their long lifespans. I'll probably seek to replace the Air 2 with whatever 9.7 inch Pro model is out in late 2018.


Edited by drakino (22/03/2016 20:45)
Edit Reason: Added ram to list of differences

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#366310 - 22/03/2016 17:27 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31578
Loc: Seattle, WA
Heard any rumors about when the second revision of the 12.9" iPad Pro will hit?

I'm trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on one or to wait. Now that they finally make one big enough for sheet music.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#366311 - 22/03/2016 18:03 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
I don't expect an update to the 12.9 inch one until 2017 at the earliest, and I've heard no rumors about the next version. Though there's a possibility of a revision in November, a year after the first version launched. It would be waiting on at least a new processor, likely to be called the A10 or A10X. I personally wouldn't bet on November though.

Apple processor precedent mostly has been iPhone first, then a possible X variant for the iPads. The 6s shipped with the A9 in September 2015, then the iPad Pro got the A9X in November 2015 and March 2016.

Prior to that though, the A8 came out in the iPhone 6, and iPad Mini 4 in September 2014. The A8X then went into the Air 2 a month later in October 2014.

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#366313 - 22/03/2016 19:01 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810

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#366315 - 22/03/2016 20:50 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Dan, Quick reply buttons... wink

And yep, looks like the iPad Pro it's self confirms it accepts 29 watts worth of charging power, discovered a few months ago elsewhere on the interwebs:


Only possible to deliver that power by using the charger Apple initially shipped for the USB-C MacBook launched last year, and the previously covered Lightning to USB-C cable released yesterday. Again to be clear, the iPad does not have a USB C port. Though this could mean that the Google Pixel C can charge via Lightning when cabled to an iPad Pro. smile

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#366320 - 22/03/2016 22:26 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Quick reply... yeah, I keep the board in the flat-mode and sometimes just go down to the bottom and start typing. This clearly makes a mess of the pretty threads.

Anyway, back to USB-C, this is interesting. So Apple is shoving more power through its existing Lightning connector, apparently using one of the USB-C fast charging power profiles. You'd kinda think that Apple should just punt Lightning and go with USB-C. Hmm.

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#366321 - 22/03/2016 22:38 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: drakino
... A new Lightning to USB3 Camera adapter that has both a USB B and USB C port. The use of USB on the iPad side grows a bit, with it supporting USB C ethernet adaptors ...
Perhaps it is my turn to be confused by USB port naming and versioning, but looking at the end view photo on Apple's web site and reading the spec description for the adapter I see USB 3 (same rectangular A port as USB 2.0) but not USB C (the rounded next gen physical plug).

USB B is the other end of the cable from USB A, IIRC.

Trying to keep this straight but the numerous USB standards and terminology variations are working against us.

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#366323 - 22/03/2016 22:59 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: K447]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: K447
Originally Posted By: drakino
... A new Lightning to USB3 Camera adapter that has both a USB B and USB C port. The use of USB on the iPad side grows a bit, with it supporting USB C ethernet adaptors ...
Perhaps it is my turn to be confused by USB port naming and versioning, but looking at the end view photo on Apple's web site and reading the spec description for the adapter I see USB 3 (same rectangular A port as USB 2.0) but not USB C (the rounded next gen physical plug).

Whoops, right you are. That's a USB A port, and a Lightning port next to it. And a Lightning plug on the other end. The Lightning port there is to pass through power while using the adapter.

USB B indeed is normally the old square style plug, or the plug type more commonly found when dealing with mini or micro USB. All tied to the old USB 1 and 2 specs that necessitated a host controller and device arrangement.

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#366324 - 23/03/2016 00:09 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: DWallach
Quick reply... yeah, I keep the board in the flat-mode and sometimes just go down to the bottom and start typing. This clearly makes a mess of the pretty threads.

Behind the scenes, it makes it more difficult for admins or moderators to split threads if needed. Including times that members have asked for splits. The member benefit also remains that people see the appropriate "Re: person" tags to follow the conversation when it has diverged. Such as this example smile

I've looked for a quick UBBThreads mod to try and disable the Quick Reply box until a button is clicked, but didn't turn up much. My own PHP and Javascript skills atrophied enough to not be able to knock it out quickly in my limited time lately.


Originally Posted By: DWallach
Anyway, back to USB-C, this is interesting. So Apple is shoving more power through its existing Lightning connector, apparently using one of the USB-C fast charging power profiles. You'd kinda think that Apple should just punt Lightning and go with USB-C. Hmm.

It's an interesting conundrum, and a situation I see Apple being in one of those "damned if they do, damned if they don't" positions.

Lightning does give them control over what accessories will work with iOS devices. A cynical person will say it's for greedy reasons, though I believe the reasons Apple states. They want to maintain their certification program to try and ensure counterfit products don't have a chance at killing the end users. And that the products are made to specs that tend to be a little higher then industry average. They haven't had full success with this, however it is at least a better situation then the current USB-C charger cable mess. Did that Google engineer ever resume his testing of cables as a personal project when a bad cable fried his laptop, or get anyone in the standards bodies to be doing it as an official thing?

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#366333 - 23/03/2016 14:24 Re: Liam robot [Re: drakino]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
In the opening parts of the keynote, Apple had a pretty heavy PR push about some of their environmental efforts. A robotics aspect of it was Liam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYshVbcEmUc

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#366334 - 23/03/2016 14:24 Re: Apple Event March 2016 [Re: drakino]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
I really like the box at the bottom, since most of the time I use it is to respond to the OP. Also, the "quick reply" link doesn't really seem to do anything. It puts the cursor in the quick reply box with a space entered already. Is that some way of tying it to the post I clicked on?

Either way, I'd really not like to get rid of the box at the bottom. I use the "quick quote" link more than anything on this board, and the full reply screen doesn't have the whole thread available, which makes it tough to quote people.

Originally Posted By: drakino
Originally Posted By: DWallach
You'd kinda think that Apple should just punt Lightning and go with USB-C. Hmm.

It's an interesting conundrum, and a situation I see Apple being in one of those "damned if they do, damned if they don't" positions.

Lightning does give them control over what accessories will work with iOS devices. A cynical person will say it's for greedy reasons, though I believe the reasons Apple states. They want to maintain their certification program to try and ensure counterfit products don't have a chance at killing the end users. And that the products are made to specs that tend to be a little higher then industry average. They haven't had full success with this, however it is at least a better situation then the current USB-C charger cable mess.

I know we've had our ideological differences, Tom, but that is the most concise summary of the current state of things that I've seen. I agree with all of it.

Quote:
Did that Google engineer ever resume his testing of cables as a personal project when a bad cable fried his laptop...

Not that I know of. Benson still has people asking for him to re-review the Tronsmart USB C car charger he gave 2 stars to. They apparently reworked their product, I assume to meet the spec. But I'm not surprised he's wary of continuing his campaign.

Google should have jumped on the publicity and good will that he was generating and given him the equipment he'd need to keep going. At the very least, he was getting the Pixel's name out there - although maybe Google didn't want people thinking it could get fried so easily, even if it isn't the Pixel's fault...
_________________________
Matt

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#366336 - 23/03/2016 14:34 Re: Quick reply box [Re: Dignan]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I really like the box at the bottom, since most of the time I use it is to respond to the OP. Also, the "quick reply" link doesn't really seem to do anything. It puts the cursor in the quick reply box with a space entered already. Is that some way of tying it to the post I clicked on?

Either way, I'd really not like to get rid of the box at the bottom. I use the "quick quote" link more than anything on this board, and the full reply screen doesn't have the whole thread available, which makes it tough to quote people.

I don't intend (nor can I) take away the quick reply box at this point. As a user, I also use it frequently. When you click the quick reply links, it does link your comment to that part of the discussion instead of the thread starter. The space in the editing box appears to be a bug, possibly due to one of the older upgrades or changes adding a space in some file. Beyond that space bug, the current codebase doesn't provide really any feedback that the quick reply links under each post are working.

There might be some quick code changes that could make that box properly reflect what is being responded to. Though in general I've avoided many code changes to the board to help keep it easyish to upgrade.

As part of the upcoming migration to Andy's server, an upgrade to 7.5.9 might happen. Overall it's a big bugfix and code cleanup release. Work is being done by the new owners of the codebase to improve it one day, but no real timeframe. I've been seeing slow progress on that front for the past 3 years.

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#366344 - 24/03/2016 15:25 Re: Quick reply box [Re: Dignan]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Originally Posted By: Dignan
I really like the box at the bottom, since most of the time I use it is to respond to the OP. Also, the "quick reply" link doesn't really seem to do anything. It puts the cursor in the quick reply box with a space entered already. Is that some way of tying it to the post I clicked on?

Either way, I'd really not like to get rid of the box at the bottom. I use the "quick quote" link more than anything on this board, and the full reply screen doesn't have the whole thread available, which makes it tough to quote people.

Originally Posted By: drakino
Originally Posted By: DWallach
You'd kinda think that Apple should just punt Lightning and go with USB-C. Hmm.

It's an interesting conundrum, and a situation I see Apple being in one of those "damned if they do, damned if they don't" positions.

Lightning does give them control over what accessories will work with iOS devices. A cynical person will say it's for greedy reasons, though I believe the reasons Apple states. They want to maintain their certification program to try and ensure counterfit products don't have a chance at killing the end users. And that the products are made to specs that tend to be a little higher then industry average. They haven't had full success with this, however it is at least a better situation then the current USB-C charger cable mess.

I know we've had our ideological differences, Tom, but that is the most concise summary of the current state of things that I've seen. I agree with all of it.

Quote:
Did that Google engineer ever resume his testing of cables as a personal project when a bad cable fried his laptop...

Not that I know of. Benson still has people asking for him to re-review the Tronsmart USB C car charger he gave 2 stars to. They apparently reworked their product, I assume to meet the spec. But I'm not surprised he's wary of continuing his campaign.


Yup, he's still doing this in an unofficial/official capacity. Amusingly, his Amazon reviews are uniformly positive, except in cases when he gets tons of downvotes, which I pointed out to a buddy of mine at Amazon. His reviews have apparently become a nice lightning rod for shady vendors' shadier practices.

I've suggested to my Amazon buddies that they should police the market themselves. No response on that yet.

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#366387 - 29/03/2016 16:14 USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: DWallach]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: DWallach
back to USB-C, this is interesting. So Apple is shoving more power through its existing Lightning connector, apparently using one of the USB-C fast charging power profiles.

Hands on testing of the 29W USB-C charger and the USB-C to Lightning cable, confirming the use of USB-PD 2.0: https://www.macstories.net/ios/testing-apples-29w-usb-c-power-adapter-and-ipad-pro-fast-charging/

Good to know the 29W adapter will still fall back and provide older Apple proprietary USB power charging at the 12W rate. I wonder if it provides the other boosted USB charging variants if plugged into say an older Nexus 7 tablet.

Dan, have you done any write ups on possible security concerns around USB-PD 2.0 spec over USB C cables?

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#366388 - 29/03/2016 18:50 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Originally Posted By: drakino
Dan, have you done any write ups on possible security concerns around USB-PD 2.0 spec over USB C cables?


That's not really my area of expertise---way too low level---but if I had the right student that would be a fun thing to tackle. If I was going to think through a research project, the challenge would be whether you can "ask" for something in the protocol that could cause problems, like catch fire.

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#366393 - 30/03/2016 17:09 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: drakino]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14484
Loc: Canada
I think the real avenue for intrusion from non-dumb cabling, is having a trojan inside that pretends to be a HID (keyboard/mouse/..) and starts taking control.

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#366401 - 31/03/2016 10:59 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: drakino]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
A related concern with USB-C is how the modern USB-C cable can also support other standards like HDMI or PCIe. The latter is pretty nasty, if a PCI device can suddenly appear in your system. Combine that with a keyboard/mouse to okay the installation of the "drivers", and you've got complete p0wnage of a computer.

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#366404 - 31/03/2016 13:55 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: DWallach]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: mlord
I think the real avenue for intrusion from non-dumb cabling, is having a trojan inside that pretends to be a HID (keyboard/mouse/..) and starts taking control.
Originally Posted By: DWallach
A related concern with USB-C is how the modern USB-C cable can also support other standards like HDMI or PCIe. The latter is pretty nasty, if a PCI device can suddenly appear in your system. Combine that with a keyboard/mouse to okay the installation of the "drivers", and you've got complete p0wnage of a computer.
Sigh, so to be 'safe' with USB-C while using cables and power sources provided by non-trusted sources (travelers would be at particular high risk) we would need something like this but with much more proactive monitoring and complete integrated USB-C borne malware protection within the 'external shield'?

I have a couple of those DROK USB power monitoring dongles. They do provide useful insight into the actual charging rates while using different cables and chargers, which can vary significantly (typically below) the expected performance.

Apparently there is the Plugable USB 3.1 Type-C Power Delivery Sniffer (USBC-TKEY for short) . Not suitable for regular folks, but at least technically interested people can look at the goings on.


Edited by K447 (31/03/2016 17:39)

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#366406 - 31/03/2016 18:01 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: K447]
K447
old hand

Registered: 29/05/2002
Posts: 798
Loc: near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
This article describes the environment within which end user confusion shall abound.

Apologies for the extensive cribbing, emphasis added by me;

Quote:
it turns out, the USB-C receptacle can be used with virtually any USB 2.0, USB 3.0, USB 3.1 or Thunderbolt 3 controller. This allows various vendors to build new devices without using of advanced, expensive and power hungry USB 3.1 controllers as well as appropriate power and signal management ICs. However, this means that different devices with the exact same connector will support different (480Mb/s, 5Gb/s or 10Gb/s) data-rates.

Moreover, vendors may or may not add support for DisplayPort functionality via USB-C port, which means that select devices will feature display output, whereas others with the same port will not.

Finally, some devices will support USB Power Delivery technology, whereas others will not.

A good news is that the USB implementers forum has designed eight distinguished labels that describe capabilities of different USB-C ports. A bad news is that the presence of a USB 3.1 type-C connector does not automatically mean anything.


Quote:
In addition to different kinds of USB type-C ports, there are different types of USB type-C cables, including USB 3.1 type-C to type-C cable assemblies with 15 wires inside as well as USB 2.0 type-C to type-C cables with 5 wires inside.

A fully-fledged USB type-C cable is active, electronically marked cable, with an ID chip that contains vendor-defined messages (VDMs) from the USB Power Delivery 2.0 specification as well as other information necessary to support additional functionality.

To make things even more complicated, there will be a host of legacy cable assemblies and adapters that will help to connect new devices to old systems as well as old devices to new systems.


It seems entirely possible that this whole USB-C thing could end up all over the floor, with user confusion and weird incompatibilities even over the longer term.

I am impressed with how a serial bus cable ended up with more wires than a basic Centronics parallel port ...


Edited by K447 (31/03/2016 18:29)

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#366498 - 12/04/2016 22:24 Re: USB-PD and iPad Pro [Re: drakino]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Originally Posted By: drakino
9.7 inch has a better screen due to the true tone color matching

Make that the best screen on any mobile device today:

http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_Pro9_ShootOut_1.htm

I'm impressed by how much of a jump the screen quality made between the Air 2 and Pro 9.7 inch.

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