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#188904 - 10/11/2003 18:51 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: tanstaafl.]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
But wait -- there is the issue of picture quality here. My TiVo holds 30 hours, but that is at the lowest quality. I don't have cable -- everything my TiVo records comes in through the antenna on top of my house, so it is pointless to record a low quality signal in high quality mode. If picture quality is an issue with you then you must get the larger disk. Highest quality uses five times as much disk space, I think.

That is the problem I had. When I had a 20 inch tv basic looked good but after I got the 40 inch one I have to set it to medium for it to look good. I had the 20 hour one which is enough but when I had to up the quality it would only hold 8 hours so I upgraded to the series 2 60 hour.
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Matt

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#188905 - 10/11/2003 20:40 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: msaeger]
Waterman981
old hand

Registered: 14/02/2002
Posts: 804
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
Have to add another vote to get TiVo. I think my friends finally see just how much it improves my TV watching. I would definatley say get a large one. I have an old stand alone 20 hour model, but record everything at best quality because I later extract it to archive to DVD. At best quality I get about 6 hours total space. I need to add another hard drive to mine. I did disable TiVo automatically recording shows I may like, because I don't have the room. At one time I thought 20 hours would be enough.... I had no clue just how much I would use the TiVo. And I must say get the service. I went without it for a couple months and when a new series started it was a pain to manually set up all recordings. And I missed many shows I wanted to record. All the pause rewind stuff still works, you do have to manually set up recordings.
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#040103696 on a shelf
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#188906 - 10/11/2003 21:08 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: phi144]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
If you have (or are interested in) DirecTV, by all means, get a DirecTV unit with built-in Tivo for these reasons:

1) They are cheaper because they don't have a built-in MPEG encoder and DirecTV actually pays part of the hardware fee to get you as a subscibor. They are going for $99 before rebate for a 35hour model.

2) The reason they don't have a built-in encoder is becuase they record the digital stream straight off of the dish. This means that each and every recording on a "DirecTivo" or "DTivo" is "perfect" in that it is the same quality as if you were recording it live. There is no quality setting with a DirecTivo, just perfect. Looks just as good on my 53" as live TV because it IS the same.

3) DirecTivos have 2 tuners so you can record two seperate shows on 2 channels while watching a 3rd pre-recorded show. This is SUCH a powerful feature and I wish they advertised it more.

4) The Tivo subscription fee is cheaper ($4.99 instead of $13) and applies to all the Tivos in your home (instead 1 for 1). With DirecTivo's going for so cheap now, both of my DirecTV receivers are now Tivos.

About recording time, I found it better to buy a 2nd DirecTivo for $50 (had a rebate) so it is cheaper to just buy a new Tivo and in effect double the recording time AND tuners in your house! With 2 tuners on each Tivo, I can have 2 shows recording on each. This sounds silly, but then you can tell each show to record 2 minutes longer and/or start a few minutes earlier so you don't miss any scenes that may have shifted at the last minute by the local affiliate. With the new feature (forget its name, but it's offered on "non" DirecTV Tivos now) comes out that allows you to send shows from one Tivo to another, it will be even more useful...

OT: Has anyone here (upon first getting a Tivo) picked up the phone to call a friend because you're SO excited about cool show you are watching to only realize that it was aired a week ago! ?
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Brad B.

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#188907 - 10/11/2003 22:21 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: phi144]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 586
Loc: Florida
Only DirectTV units can record 2 shows at once this is why I have 3 TiVo's.

This site has a good list of different models http://www.tivo-buying-guide.com/


I have 3 "Philips HDR-112 - 14 Hour" units and all three of my TiVo's have been upgraded by myself. 2 have a 120 GB drive (40 hours at best quality) the other has 2 120 GB drives (80 hours at best quality). If you want a TiVo that is more hackable you need a series 1, but again if I was buying today I would be getting the combo TiVo + DVD-R units just to make it easier. I do extract shows from my TiVo and burn them to DVD but this requires quite a bit of manual work and you must have a hacked TiVo to do this.


This is a great thread containing *most* of the hack available for the TiVo. The extraction software can be found at this site

Oh, and to answer your size question, if you plan on doing no of the above hacks or user upgrade get whatever size TiVo you can afford.

Stuff I forgot to say: I have every Alias episode still on my largest TiVo and you should go check out the remotes for the different TiVo's because this makes a huge difference. The peanut remotes from Philips are the best.


Edited by Attack (10/11/2003 22:28)
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Chad

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#188908 - 10/11/2003 22:39 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3747
OT: Has anyone here (upon first getting a Tivo) picked up the phone to call a friend because you're SO excited about cool show you are watching to only realize that it was aired a week ago! ?

With all my business travel lately, I've gotten several weeks behind on some of my favorite shows. I find myself needing to warn my friends not to spoil me on all the plot twists.

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#188909 - 10/11/2003 22:52 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: DWallach]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12272
Loc: Sterling, VA
The worst I've experienced is with football games. I start every game an hour late, which lets me fast forward through commercials and lengthy instant replay reviews. All too often I'll have friends calling me just when the game ends in real time while I've still got 1 minute to go in the 4th quarter. Whether they're excited or sad, I still yell at them
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Matt

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#188910 - 10/11/2003 23:54 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: Dignan]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

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#188911 - 11/11/2003 00:04 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: phi144]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
As others have said, there are combo units now that have DVR/DVD recording.

Personally though, I'd recommend a Replay TV 4500/5000. It has a few big things over the TiVo units that I enjoy.

1. Network show sharing. Couple this with a free PC program, and you can watch your shows on your computer, or use this to extract them, remove the commercials, and burn the show to DVD. And, this also allows you to store shows on your PC hard drives, and still play them back on the ReplayTV unit over the network.

2. Internet show sharing. Miss recording something for some reason? Head to planetreplay.com and post a request, and watch as your Replay unit gets this show from their unit.

3. Commercial skip. Sure, TiVo allows you to fast forward, and many units have 30 second skip buttons. Mine, it skips 80% of the commercials automaticially without touching the remote. And there is PC software to read these markers, allowing for quicker DVD conversion.

Overall, from playing with a few TiVos now, I also appreciate the fast interface on my ReplayTV quite a bit. Seems all the cute sounds and animated interfaces on the TiVo slow it down quite a bit.
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Tom

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#188912 - 11/11/2003 00:10 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: lectric]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

Personally, I thought I would never switch to a unit that had to encode my video. But, after borrowing a friends Replay unit, I changed my mind. The features were well worth it over the integrated units, and at medium or high recording, I don't notice the quality loss.

There are no off the shelf DVR units that have integrated digital cable tuners. Some cable companies do offer DVR units for rental while you use their service, but I haven't seen too many out there. None based off TiVo or ReplayTV that I know of.
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Tom

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#188913 - 11/11/2003 06:39 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Question: does the DirectTV Tivo have all of the features a regular Tivo has? Specifically the "Record show X" stuff where it records the show (and anything related) whenever it comes on? The Dishnetwork DVR doesn't have this and our contract is up this month, so I'd consider switching if the Direct Tivo stuff is more feature rich.
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Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#188914 - 11/11/2003 06:49 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: JeffS]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
FerretBoy, yes they do. They have all of the Tivo Features minus the "Home Media Option" which allows programming the player via the internet (say you're at work and remember you want to record something) and allows sharing of shows within the same house. That feature may make its way to the DirecTivos soon. Personally, the 2 tuner feature more than makes up for this.

Other than that, DirecTivo have all of the features that "SA" or "Stand Alone" Tivos have - they even run the same exact interface and software.
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Brad B.

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#188915 - 11/11/2003 06:51 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: JeffS]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
The only differences I've noticed between the standalone TiVo and the DirecTiVo are the additional tuner in the DTiVo and the abilities that come with that, the fact that the DTiVo only uses the phone line for PPV purchases (guide info comes over the satellite), and the fact that there's no video quality setting.

Otherwise it's basically identical.
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Bitt Faulk

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#188916 - 11/11/2003 07:03 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: wfaulk]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Thanks for the info, guys. I'll have to look into that. It appears to me that DirectTV doesn't have all of the same package options that Dish Network does and I'll really miss the "skip ahead" feature the Dish network unit has (as opposed to FF), but the "season pass" and two channel recording look like killer features.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#188917 - 11/11/2003 08:15 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: drakino]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
OK, How would it work? Does it just have a little IR thingie that sits in front of the digital cable box? So you'd use the Tivo to control the cable box completely and shelf the cable remote? Not that that's a big deal, so long as it works.

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#188918 - 11/11/2003 08:41 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: lectric]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
You can use the IR thingy (which works pretty well, but occasionally gets stations confused) or for some cable providers you can use the serial port on the rear of the digital cable box, which is more accurate (never confused) and switches channels faster. I have Comcast digital cable and a series 2 Tivo (80 hrs) and it works very well.

-Zeke
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WWFSMD?

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#188919 - 11/11/2003 08:52 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: Waterman981]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4919
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
I would definatley say get a large one. I have an old stand alone 20 hour model, but record everything at best quality because I later extract it to archive to DVD.
It should be noted that only the Series1 Tivos are able to extract video in a reliable fashion. You just have to get a Tivonet or Turbonet card and install some 3rd party software.

That said, there is a deal I got in my mailbox today for a 80GB Series1 Stand-Alone for $199. Use coupon code GEEKTIVO to get the special price.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#188920 - 11/11/2003 09:25 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31384
Loc: Seattle, WA
With all of the praise for the DirecTivo units, I wanted to re-iterate one drawback they have:

DirecTivo units currently have only the two satellite tuners. They do not have over-the-air tuning capability. So if you want to Tivo your local stations, you must pay DirecTV an additional $4.00 per month for the "local channel package", i.e., paying them to re-broadcast the local stations back to you that you already get with rabbit ears.

Now, by default, most of the subscription packages you see quoted on the DirecTV site already include that $4.00 for the local channels. So if you're deciding based on those prices, then you're already golden.

But since network television sucks so bad these days (i.e., there's not a lot of stuff on network TV I'm crazy about having on the Tivo), I'm choosing to save that four bucks and I'm only Tivo-ing the satellite channels.

Still, $99.00 for a DirecTivo system with the two satellite tuners is a no-brainer decision for many. Hard to beat. Remember to get a dish with more than one output so you can use both tuners. If you want to upgrade to high-def eventually, you'll want the dish with three LNB antennas and multiple outputs.
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Tony Fabris

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#188921 - 11/11/2003 09:31 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: tfabris]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4919
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
i.e., paying them to re-broadcast the local stations back to you that you already get with rabbit ears.
I don't know where you live in relation to television transmitters, but the only channels I can get over the air is the Jesus channel and the Spanish channel. I don't care for either one of them. To get CBS, NBC, Fox, etc., it's either cable or DBS.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#188922 - 11/11/2003 09:44 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: Ezekiel]
phi144
enthusiast

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 314
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
I think I will be doing the same. I also use Comcast. Although the DirectTV deal is tempting.
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Doug

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#188923 - 11/11/2003 09:46 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: robricc]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31384
Loc: Seattle, WA
I don't know where you live in relation to television transmitters...
I'm lucky because I'm on a mountaintop with a clear view of the valley where all the broadcast stations are. I can get all of the local stations in both analog and digital/hi-def formats clear as a bell.

But you're right, many people are in the same boat, they can't get the local stations with an antenna anyhow, so paying the extra 4 bucks isn't a problem.
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Tony Fabris

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#188924 - 11/11/2003 09:54 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: tfabris]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4919
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
I have a friend that lives in Jersey City, NJ. He is probably 5 miles as the crow flies from the empire state building. He can't get ANY locals clearly and he has a huge antenna on his roof. Maybe it's just NY that has this problem for some reason.
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-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#188925 - 11/11/2003 10:48 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: lectric]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
OK, How would it work? Does it just have a little IR thingie that sits in front of the digital cable box? So you'd use the Tivo to control the cable box completely and shelf the cable remote? Not that that's a big deal, so long as it works.
Yes, it comes with 2 IR transmitters (because ReplayTV units can control 2 seperate input sources) that stick to the unit you want to control. I have mine attached to the front of the Dish 301 box, and it has never failed to change a channel to record something. The only time I would need the Dish remote would be to either check my signal strength, or buy pay per view shows.
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Tom

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#188926 - 11/11/2003 11:31 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: lectric]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3747
OK, I want one. Bad. BUT, I use digital TV, is there a digital cable Tivo out there (That's NOT DirectTV or DishNetwork?)

Some places (in the Bay Area?) that have AT&T cable can get an special series-2 TiVo that works for their cable system. If you're out here in Time Warner land, however, you're out of luck, or you're just connecting a standalone TiVo to the analog output of your pre-existing cable box.

As to ReplayTV vs. TiVo, I went with TiVo specifically for the dual tuner and direct satellite digital recording features. Among other things, when the premium channels transmit Dolby Digital, you get that on playback. I suppose it would be nice to beam shows from my TiVo to my PC or something, but it's not critical for me. However, being able to have digital audio output from the TiVo is a fantastic thing.

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#188927 - 11/11/2003 11:39 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: drakino]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
OK, cool. Methinks I just made the decision on what to buy the wife for christmas. -= wink, wink, nudge nudge =-

For the record, she watches FAR more TV than I do, so it really would be for her. I'd just enjoy the hell out of it too.

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#188928 - 11/11/2003 11:56 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: lectric]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31384
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah, I'm told that the Tivo is one of the few gadgets that the female spousal units enjoy just as much as the male ones.
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Tony Fabris

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#188929 - 11/11/2003 12:11 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: tfabris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12272
Loc: Sterling, VA
My dad and I always joke with my mom. "We're getting a new gadget! It'll make your life 10 times more difficult!" But she absolutely loves Tivo. Within a week she had 20 season passes set up all by herself, and was able to search for upcoming programs she was interested in. It's the most technologically advanced she's ever been
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Matt

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#188930 - 11/11/2003 12:46 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: Dignan]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Within a week she had 20 season passes set up all by herself, and was able to search for upcoming programs she was interested in
Ditto. I didn't even show Kelly how to use the Tivo features and when i came home yesterday she said she'd setup a season pass for ER, watched a recorded episode, and deleted it already. My little geeky heart fluttered. hahah.

Internet show sharing. Miss recording something for some reason? Head to planetreplay.com and post a request, and watch as your Replay unit gets this show from their unit.
THAT is a killer feature. That's like having on demand TV for real. It IS having on demand TV.

What is the status of being able to extract shows from Series2 DirecTivos? I thought i'd seen threads on how to at least get shell and adding TivoWeb... i just haven't had time to investigate further.

So questions for you DirecTivo owners... have any of you hacked them at all? What is possible at this point?

Oh, and another quicky thread stealin' question... I'm having problems with some season passes. Specifically one for the Daily show, where i've set it to only record first runs, it records all 4 shows daily despite them being identical. Then there's Family Guy, which airs once a day with a different episode daily. The season pass for that is set to the middle setting... can't remember the exact wording, but it should record them all. But when i go to the recording history screen it shows that it won't record them because they are duplicates, despite being all different episodes. SO... what exactly does the Tivo use as the deciding factor one what is a duplicate/first run etc? phew...
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#188931 - 11/11/2003 12:58 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: loren]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12272
Loc: Sterling, VA
As far as the Daily Show goes (and probably the issue with Family Guy), thsi depends on the data that Tivo gets. I used to have a Daily Show season pass too, but I got all those episodes recorded so I changed it to a manual time record. The problem is that Tivo (the company) doesn't know which episodes are new, and I presume that it's because Comedy Central doesn't tell them. That's the only reason I can tell for it happening.

As for Family Guy, I'm not sure what's going on there. I assume the "middle setting" is the one that records both first runs and repeats, in which case it should get all of them. It might be another case like the one I described about the Daily Show. I had that season pass too, though, and didn't have a problem with it. You're getting the one on Cartoon Network, right?

It's funny, Jon Stewart actually joked about this exact thing on one episode. He said something to the effect of "Tivo will give you 8 episodes of this show in one day."
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Matt

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#188932 - 11/11/2003 13:03 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: loren]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4919
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
So questions for you DirecTivo owners... have any of you hacked them at all? What is possible at this point?
A Series1 DirecTiVo is just as hackable as a Series1 Stand Alone. I have turbonets in mine and can extract shows.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#188933 - 11/11/2003 13:30 Re: Tivo vs DVD Player/Recorder [Re: loren]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
I don't have a Tivo, but I do have a Microsoft 2004 Media Center. Not as many TV features, but you can schedule shows (sometimes you get repeats), you can't record two things at once, I have a 120 gig hard drive in mine. It's a full featured DVD player, if you have a DVD burner installed with myDVD you can burn recorded programs straight to DVD, the guide data is free, and it even has downloadable games... and they are free too. I'm hooked on Gem Master...You can pause live TV, and has a lot of other features too. Set up your music directory and you've got a full featured music center, and also plays downloaded video.

The beauty of all that is, the hardware you need doesn't cost more then 150 bucks and a decent PC.... I went a little crazy and bought a shuttle, the TV card, and MMC remote... but it certainly has changed my viewing habits....

Also... it is a PC so you can network it and share all your recorded shows. It is in a MS format, but the format is high quality and easily converted with freely available utils...


Edited by lopan (11/11/2003 13:32)
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Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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