#232080 - 30/08/2004 17:00
New Linux Server
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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So, I get home from a friend's wedding in Ilkley, West Yorks, to find that the console on my Linux box is spewing a load of "read failure: hde" messages.
It appears that one of my 250Gb IDE disks has just snuffed it.
Obviously, I could just buy another one (and I'll be canvassing for hard disk opinions at some point). This, of course, is not the way I do things, as you know.
I was planning, at some point, to move to SATA. So, now seems like a good time to think about it.
Currently, my Linux box is an Asus A7V with a 950MHz Athlon Tbird on it. I'm using a Highpoint HTP374 RAID card with Linux (not for the RAID, though).
I'm a bit narked off, because the disk that's died is my /home partition -- just after I decided not to bother backing it up to DVD, because it would take too long.
Fortunately, most of my important stuff is backed up, so it's not quite as traumatic as it could be.
So: assuming that I decide to upgrade to a new PC, can I get advice about the following:
A case -- I want something relatively quiet but, above all, it's gotta be cool.
A motherboard.
A CPU. Should I get an AMD64 or something exciting like that?
Hard disks -- I'm considering going for RAID5 for reliability, and maybe sticking 3 or 4 disks in it, but that means that I'll probably want to opt for SATA -- 'cos PATA is a PITA to cable. This should be kept in mind when thinking about the case.
So, do SATA RAID solutions exist that work with Linux (Debian/unstable)? Are they particularly hard to set up?
Backup. Tape is expensive, but I'm thinking that it might be expensive not to use it. Any thoughts?
_________________________
-- roger
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#232081 - 30/08/2004 17:18
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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As far as cases go I've got the silver version of this:  I do wish this version had been available when I bought the other one. It's PSU'less so I bought an Enermax twin fan quiet PSU which even with two case fans is still whisper quiet. BTW, the illuminated fan at the front is visible through the grill, which looks cool. As for CPU and mobo, Athlon XP2000 chips can be had for peanuts and following on from another thread do you really need oodles of processing power for a server? I've had ASUS mobos for a few years now and never had a problem.
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Cheers,
Andy M
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#232082 - 30/08/2004 17:39
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
A case -- I want something relatively quiet but, above all, it's gotta be cool.
I love the AMS gMono. With recent versions though, it's pretty difficult to mount a fan on the front. The style of the case makes a front case fan a bit worthless anyway. The has room for two in the back though. Most recently I built a 3.0GHz P4 with 4 hard disks and 2 fans in the back and it's pretty quiet.
By cool you mean stylish... right?
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#232083 - 30/08/2004 18:03
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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I just this past weekend turned on my water-cooled dual Opteron Quote:
A case -- I want something relatively quiet but, above all, it's gotta be cool.
I recycled a Lian-Li PC60 case. I still like their layout.
Quote:
A motherboard.
I got a Tyan Tiger K8W. Smooth sailing so far. I was also pleased to find Tyan-specific sensors.conf files for lm-sensors last eve on Tyan Web site. Made that easy.
Quote:
A CPU. Should I get an AMD64 or something exciting like that?
I confess I got Opterons 'cuz I liked the way it sounded. Nice package, though -- excellent contact with the waterblocks.
Quote:
Hard disks -- I'm considering going for RAID5 for reliability, and maybe sticking 3 or 4 disks in it, but that means that I'll probably want to opt for SATA -- 'cos PATA is a PITA to cable. This should be kept in mind when thinking about the case. So, do SATA RAID solutions exist that work with Linux (Debian/unstable)? Are they particularly hard to set up?
I forsook the on-board SATA RAID on the K8w for a 3Ware 2-port SATA card (like $140 at NewEgg) and am running 200GB RAID-1. For ~$300 you can get a 4-port 3ware SATA card that would support RAID-5. they are a cinch to set up. Nice monitoring daemon. The 3ware driver is pretty much same driver used for their PATA cards and has been in several distros for a while. I'd say that if you are using 2.6 kernel for Debian, you'll find it there automagically.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#232084 - 30/08/2004 18:31
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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I'm still waiting on Linux support for the Raidcore SATA raid controllers. An 8 port one is $350ish, and offers RAID5, online expansion, and other features normally reserved for high end SCSI controllers. The Broadcom takeover delayed the Linux drivers a bit, but drivers are now out for 3 variants of Linux, with a kernel module for all versions to come later.
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#232085 - 30/08/2004 18:56
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: jimhogan]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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I've been really happy with my Antec P160 case. if you like something a little flashy. Its got a fan bay in front of the drives and all the drives on slide in trays.
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#232086 - 30/08/2004 20:03
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 29/06/2002
Posts: 531
Loc: Triangle, VA
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Case wise I have always like the look of this one : http://www.ahanix.com/platinumxp.htmleven tho I have never gotten it.
_________________________
-D
Modifying and Tweaking is a journey,
not a destination................................
MKIIa : 60gig - 040103286 - Blue - v2 + PCATS tuner
MKIIa : 20gig - 040103260 - Blue - v3a8 + Mark Lord Special Edition Cherry Dock
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#232087 - 31/08/2004 07:37
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: muzza]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
I've been really happy with my Antec P160 case.
Ooo, that is nice....
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#232088 - 31/08/2004 09:21
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Quote:
Quote:
I've been really happy with my Antec P160 case.
Ooo, that is nice....
Yes that is pretty cool. Murray, where did you get it in Brisvegas?
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)
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#232089 - 31/08/2004 09:41
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
By cool you mean stylish... right?
Actually I meant low temperature, but if it looks good, that's a bonus. I do like the look of that Antec P160, though. I might just move my existing CPU/board into a new case and replace the HPT controller with a 3ware SATA RAID card.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232090 - 31/08/2004 09:45
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Ooh, ooh, finally found somewhere in the UK that stocks 4-in-3 drive bay converters (put 4x3.5" hard drives in a 3x5.25" space, including cooling). Scan have got them. They're out of stock at the moment, but it's encouraging.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232091 - 31/08/2004 09:59
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
3ware SATA RAID card.
Ooh, £229 + VAT for the 3ware 8506-4LP (4 port). From here. I'm sure I'll be able to find cheaper with some more looking, but that's cheaper than I was expecting already.
One question: PCI compatibility. I assume that my A7V is old enough to still be 32-bit PCI-33. The 8000-series Escalade cards are 64-bit/66MHz. Presumably this will still work, just at degraded performance?
Oh, and 3ware only claim support for Red Hat and SuSE. I thought that support was in the kernel sources, meaning that I'll be fine with Debian (currently using a 2.4 kernel), or is it a binary driver, which will be a headache?
_________________________
-- roger
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#232092 - 31/08/2004 10:36
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Quote:
One question: PCI compatibility. I assume that my A7V is old enough to still be 32-bit PCI-33. The 8000-series Escalade cards are 64-bit/66MHz. Presumably this will still work, just at degraded performance?
Doesn't this differ from card to card? I looked at an 8 port SATA card with was PCI-64 which said it would not work in a 32bit slot.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#232093 - 31/08/2004 11:06
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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old hand
Registered: 09/01/2002
Posts: 702
Loc: Tacoma,WA
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Quote:
Quote:
3ware SATA RAID card.
One question: PCI compatibility. I assume that my A7V is old enough to still be 32-bit PCI-33. The 8000-series Escalade cards are 64-bit/66MHz. Presumably this will still work, just at degraded performance?
I'm not sure but I've used quite a few different 64-bit PCI cards in 32-bit slots with no problems. Now in this case it might be a waste of money though.. what's the point of going SATA RAID if you don't get the performance. That's like buying a Ferrari that can't go over 55 MPH (100 km/h)...
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#232094 - 31/08/2004 11:28
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: andym]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
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There is a supplier in South Brisbane where I picked up a case for a client but i got mine thru auspcmarket.com.au. I'll dig out the supplier's name later tomorrow at work. Intel make a hotswap SATA drive cage and a RAID controller, like this. 3ware's controller and cage are quite good too, the cage is very chrome and shiney. Might go well with the p160 I thought, depending on the pin configs, 64bit controllers could sit in 32 bit slots, you just don't get the throughput. Actually, I'm sure this is the case and I've done this for someone recently.
_________________________
--
Murray
I What part of 'no' don't you understand?
Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?
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#232095 - 31/08/2004 11:38
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: muzza]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
I thought, depending on the pin configs, 64bit controllers could sit in 32 bit slots, you just don't get the throughput. Actually, I'm sure this is the case and I've done this for someone recently.
According to 3ware's motherboard compatibility list, it'll work with a selection of boards that have PCI-33 slots, but doesn't mention mine. Since it mentions "64-bit PCI-66" explicitly for other boards, I assume that "PCI-33" means 32-bit/33MHz (does 33MHz even support 64-bit?).
OTOH, I just found a BIOS upgrade that allows support for >128Gb drives with this motherboard, which is why I installed the HPT card in the first place. If I opt for JBOD, I can plug 16 disks in, even without buying the 3ware  . Doesn't give me hardware RAID5, though.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232096 - 31/08/2004 13:47
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
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I just built this box a few months ago: https://nerp.net/gallery/nerpIt contains (picture is of bare bones, before fully installed) 2x AMD Opteron 246 (2.0ghz) 1gb PC2700 (replacing 2x512 with 4x1024 sticks this winter) Tyan S2882 (K8S Pro) 2x Seagate baracuda 120gb drives (software mirroring) LZS (rackmountnet.com) Opteron 1U case (very loud, but it's a colo) I'm currently running Debian/i386 sarge, but I am hoping that the amd64 port will have a nice stable sarge version this winter when I plan to do the ram upgrade. I had a 3ware 7500-4 (older board) and 4x 60gb Hitachi drives, but it turns out there are serious issues with 7xxx 3ware cards and the new AMD 8111 chipset (and two intel chips) that causes wierd crashes/lockups. I ended up replacing the 120gb of RAID10 with 120gb of RAID1 (linux software raid) using PATA-SATA adatpers and the onboard SATA controler. (which does crappy software raid, which I didn't use)
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)
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#232097 - 31/08/2004 14:15
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
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Quote:
Oh, and 3ware only claim support for Red Hat and SuSE. I thought that support was in the kernel sources, meaning that I'll be fine with Debian (currently using a 2.4 kernel), or is it a binary driver, which will be a headache?
It's certainly in 2.4.26 and IIRC has been in 2.4 for a while: CONFIG_BLK_DEV_3W_XXXX_RAID.
OTOH Mark Lord has been dropping hints on this BBS recently about working on Linux drivers for some unspecified but really nice SATA controller. And I notice today that there seems to be something called SATA-2 which I hadn't previously heard of. So if you can wait a bit there might be something more tasty coming along.
Peter
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#232098 - 31/08/2004 14:57
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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addict
Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
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I had been using a 3ware 7500-4 for 2 years before upgrading to my new opteron. (read other post about chipset compatability)
I was using an old Intel 440bx chipset board, with the thing in 32bit/33mhz slot. No problems.
Yes.. there are 33mhz/64bit slots out there, in some of the first gen 64bit boards (alpha cpu boards come to mind)
I was previously running 2.4.x with my 3ware, no problems.. and 2.6.x also work fine. I would reccomend 2.6.x, it's been very nice on my new server. (having alsa and lm-sensors in the main kernel is very nice)
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)
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#232099 - 31/08/2004 17:01
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
It appears that one of my 250Gb IDE disks has just snuffed it.
And, surprise, surprise, it's out of warranty by 3 months and 5 days, according to Maxtor's RMA Wizard webpage.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232100 - 31/08/2004 19:42
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: muzza]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Quote:
I've been really happy with my Antec P160 case. if you like something a little flashy. Its got a fan bay in front of the drives and all the drives on slide in trays.
I just looked at this case in CompUSA today. I like it in some ways but not others:
Pros:
- I like the orientation of the internal 3.5" bays
- giant fan in the back and space for one in front of the interal 3.5" bays.
- dust filter on front intake
- I really like the external drive bay covers. It looks a lot slicker to have matching fronts on your optical drives. They've even made these covers pretty accomodating for a wide range of drives
Cons:
- I'm suprised at how light the material is. I would have expected more from a $130 case. The front bezel, if I remember correctly, is entirely plastic. The rest of the case is made up of what appears to be aluminum, but it seems thin to me.
- for $160, they couldn't throw in the front fan? what's up with that? I'd think it would be all or none.
- what's the deal with the swiveling front connectors? Is there a purpose to that?
- are you able to screw the internal drives in place, or are those slides all you have? Doesn't that cause a lot of vibration noise?
I'd be interested in hearing your response on these points. Cases are pretty interesting to me, and I like seeing the wide variety there is out there.
I think if I were getting a case of this type, I'd get something like this. I tend to like Lian-Li, and though most people say how expensive they are, I think you get a good value considering the build quality.
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Matt
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#232101 - 31/08/2004 20:49
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I think if I were getting a case of this type, I'd get something like this. I tend to like Lian-Li, and though most people say how expensive they are, I think you get a good value considering the build quality.
Wow. $129. That's the updated version of what I have and I agree, it is a great case. I particularly like the slide out hard drive tray. Also the trivially easy side panels (that I loaded up with sound deadening) and the 3 speed front fans (now running inaudibly on "1"). That case was $160-$170 a couple years back. I have had good luck buying from Directron, too.
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#232102 - 31/08/2004 23:02
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: jimhogan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
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Yeah, I like the side panels too. I also got mine from Directron (the PC-75), and had a good experience. I wish it had the slide out motherboard tray, but the 7x cases are so huge you've got plenty of room What model did you have, the PC60? I like how the front inputs look on this one, very stylish.
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Matt
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#232103 - 01/09/2004 04:14
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
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The warranty on new disks sucks these days, doesn't it....
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#232104 - 01/09/2004 04:44
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Daria]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
The warranty on new disks sucks these days, doesn't it....
I think I'm gonna get some Seagate Barracuda 7200.7's. They have a 3 year warranty. They're also very quiet, quite quick, and the 200Gb model is about £80 inc VAT from various online retailers.
_________________________
-- roger
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#232105 - 01/09/2004 05:16
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote:
One question: PCI compatibility. I assume that my A7V is old enough to still be 32-bit PCI-33. The 8000-series Escalade cards are 64-bit/66MHz. Presumably this will still work, just at degraded performance?
PCI voltage is a concern. I've never personally come across a 64 bit card that won't work in a 32 bit slot that can support the right voltage.
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#232106 - 01/09/2004 05:57
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Hmm. On my Suns, the different stop placement was associated with the PCI bus speed. I wonder if the bus speed and voltage are directly related?
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Bitt Faulk
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#232107 - 01/09/2004 17:44
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Dignan]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
What model did you have, the PC60? I like how the front inputs look on this one, very stylish.
Yes, the PC60. And, yes, very stylish.....hmmm ("Stop it, Jim! Stop!")
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Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#232108 - 01/09/2004 17:46
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
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Quote:
I think I'm gonna get some Seagate Barracuda 7200.7's. They have a 3 year warranty. They're also very quiet
This is what I got and, yes, very quiet. I'm so happy.
_________________________
Jim
'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.
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#232109 - 01/09/2004 18:22
Re: New Linux Server
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Dell has those for $106.36 (~£59) on the US site with free shipping. Maybe someone's coming over here and can bring them back to you? Depending on how many you're buying, that can add up.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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